The Guardian: Nato is a threat to Europe and must be disbanded

[Last Conformist]

No. They have considerable entertainment value.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ned
Oerdin, I think the critical factor is not whether we pay real interest on the debt, but whether the debt is growing or shrinking as a percentage of GDP.

Ned, I will agree that it is better if the debt is decreasing as a percent of GDP and I agree there are other countries who have acted fiscally more irresponsibly then the USA has, however, I truly believe in balanced budgets. I truly believe that it is better for the future of our country if the government is run like a business and lives with in its means. What type of business can post losses like Bush has and not fire its CEO? What business could run loss after loss and not take corrective action without being decimated by the market?

I may be a social progressive but I remain a finical conservative who thinks our country shouldn't dump huge debts upon our children. Ned, you are married and most likely have children. Do you believe they should be stuck paying our bills or do you think we should be disciplined enough to pay our own way? I don't care if we cut government spending or raise taxes but to run up debt is horrible. I work hard to avoid debt because it is good economic management for me personally and I expect my elected politicians to also excursive good economic management over the public finances.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Ned


Once upon a time. But Chirac and his people were on the take from Saddam big time. There is also no question that France supports the fascist Arabs and opposes the democratic Arabs.

Can you identify the fascist arabs and democratic arabs. I don't think I've familiar with either group.

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by Serb



Oh no, not this crap again.


If Russians are beaten men in Chechnya, then who the hell Americans in Iraq? Complete suckers?
In Chechnya there is no such warfare like in Iraq. Insurgents there can't take any city or even small village under their control. Just can't. Their more or less capable formations were absolutely f*cked years ago. And survived several hundreds of mofos hidding their asses in mountains. And still you whine that Russians are beaten.
Thousands of combantants control Faluja or Mosul in Iraq for months and nobody shout about beaten Americans.

America morale is in Iraq is low also. The election willnot have international or national legalrateion. First the America army7 is acting like the Germany Gestapo illegality arresting than Imnan for urgeding Iraqi force to
not fight with the america occup force. They are also use illegal Gestapo like tactic to terrorer the Muslim Clerics Association that is urgeding sunni muslim to not vote in the phoney election.

Good moral is inportant to any military units. The Freedom Fighter in the Russia Republic are rebuilting they strenght and are attacking Russian unit and winning. The Afghanistan War is going badly for America as the Tabian is wageing than effective rural inssugent war against America.

The reason I only talk about Russia is that person only talking about Russia military force.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Oerdin

I may be a social progressive but I remain a finical conservative who thinks our country shouldn't dump huge debts upon our children.

I'm finding myself wondering are you one of those people who voted for that write-in candiate in San Diego? Cannot recall her name right now but I am sure you know who I am referring to.

[Serb]

edited

[Serb]

edited

[Spiffor]

Serb:
It's bad to attack CBH on his diability. He has a speech impairement, which is why his posts look like that.
There are many things youcan counter in this post, so I think you shouldn't swwep as low as attacking his impairement. You certainly don't have to, in order to win a debate against him

[Serb]

I'm terribly sorry. I didn't know.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
I certainly hope not, Bush has put America's interests ahead of the interests of other nations while Clinton did the exact opposite.

I disagree.

Clinton was the president that took care of the Pax Americana in a very succeessful way. Never had the US as much international weight than under Clinton. His only failure at maintaining the New World Order was the failure of North Korea. Apart from that, all significant countries played by American rules, and the ones that didn't play by the rules were kept in insignificance (like Iraq or Sudan).

The US was as much self-serving under Clinton than under Bush. The difference is that Clinton knew when to give lip service to the other countries and foreign public opinions, which was a much less costly means to get support than Bush's bullying.

Bush's foreign policy is motivated by the unability to understand one thing: a short-term cost can bring a real long-term gain. Had he worked to have France and Germany on his side in Iraq (with giving them some concessions), he would now have two extra allies comparably powerful to Briatain (unlike Denmark or the Netherlands) to do the peacekeeping with. Much less money and much fewer American lives would have been spent then.

Clinton was a master of lip-service and slight concessions. With his course of action, America's power reached an all-time height. Bush's shortsighted diplomacy has the only consequence that America's power tanks.

Edit: great avatar btw

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Serb
I'm terribly sorry. I didn't know.

No problem, many people don't know

Now don't hesitate and be harsh against his arguments!

[Saras]

--"Clinton was a master of lip-service and slight concessions. With his course of action, America's power reached an all-time height. Bush's shortsighted diplomacy has the only consequence that America's power tanks."

I always said that Clinton=Bush+Good PR advice

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
How could you hate Clinton? He never did anything (other than employees)...

Kosovo war. Bombing Iraq, and generally bullying it. Successfully maintained the New World Order, i.e. prevented new blocs to even attempt to emerge.

Clinton initiated at least one illegal war, just like Bush. How come the opposition to the Kosovo war wasn't mainstream, while the opposition to the war in Iraq was?

[Drake Tungsten]

How come the opposition to the Kosovo war wasn't mainstream, while the opposition to the war in Iraq was?

Because ya'll asked us to do the first? It's fine for America to flex its muscle as long as Euros are the ones benefitting from it...

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Ned, I will agree that it is better if the debt is decreasing as a percent of GDP and I agree there are other countries who have acted fiscally more irresponsibly then the USA has, however, I truly believe in balanced budgets. I truly believe that it is better for the future of our country if the government is run like a business and lives with in its means. What type of business can post losses like Bush has and not fire its CEO? What business could run loss after loss and not take corrective action without being decimated by the market?

I may be a social progressive but I remain a finical conservative who thinks our country shouldn't dump huge debts upon our children. Ned, you are married and most likely have children. Do you believe they should be stuck paying our bills or do you think we should be disciplined enough to pay our own way? I don't care if we cut government spending or raise taxes but to run up debt is horrible. I work hard to avoid debt because it is good economic management for me personally and I expect my elected politicians to also excursive good economic management over the public finances.

Oerdin, you are completely ignoring the economic effects of spending. Spending is like fuel to an engine. The more fuel, the faster the car goes.

The problem with borrowing the money to spend is that the borrowed money adds to to the money supply (debt = money). If too much money chases too few goods, we get inflation. So the trick is to balance economic growth and money supply expansion so as to minimize inflation.

As to me personally, let me tell you that debt is essential. For example, I borrowed money to buy the house I'm in. I still owe more than half that money to the bank. But, at the same time, my house has more than doubled in value. Now, if I die tomorrow, my kid gets a house in Kalifornia with a debt about 1/5th of its value.

Investing in the economy operates in the same way.