The Guardian: Nato is a threat to Europe and must be disbanded

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Cruddy

??? The first thing the German forces did was to seize Narvik, the strategic port for shipping 50,000 tonnes of Swedish iron ore per day.

Whereupon the Brits took it, and held on to it till things went pear-shaped in France.

Not like we couldn't export our iron ore over the Baltic. Hadn't France went collapsing, it's entirely possible Churchill might've got realize his plan for seizing Kiruna.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by DanS
The trade deficit is more like $500 billion -- i.e., quite a bit bigger than the entire Russian economy.

Russia is hereby forever and irredeemably pwned!

[Serb]

I bet Swedish economy isn't bigger than their deficit as well.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Serb
Why? Why? Why the hell not?

Because you have a big army and nukes?

Because it's a lot easier (militarily and politically) to pick some ME nation or, say Venezuala?

Come on, you can do better than that.

(EDIT: somehow forgot to finish the sentence)

You've made a precedent, now we are very unhappy about that.

We've made a precedent of attacking small, easily defeated ME nations ruled by what Americans universally agree are ruled by tyrannical dictatorships and setting up new governments in them. Last time I checked, Russia wasn't in the ME.

[Kuciwalker]

Serb - remember, it costs less than 1 cent to make a penny, so those 11 cents are actually worth LESS than 11 cents!

[Serb]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by Serb
Why? Why? Why the hell not?

Because you have a big army and nukes?

Because it's a lot easier (militarily and politically) to pick some ME nation or, say Venezuala?

Come on, you

You've made a precedent, now we are very unhappy about that.

We've made a precedent of attacking small, easily defeated ME nations ruled by what Americans universally agree are ruled by tyrannical dictatorships and setting up new governments in them. Last time I checked, Russia wasn't in the ME.

We have a long history of hostile relationships. We tried to improve our relationships. Damn we even ocasionly collapsed during that process. And what did we get? We have no Warsaw Pact anymore, but NATO is growing, Americans bomb whatever they wish and nobody care a **** about that. First Iraq, then Serbia, then Afghanistan, now Iraq again. Yeah world is a better place for living now, a much safer place. And sure we don't need to worry about NATO's expansion.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Serb
I bet Swedish economy isn't bigger than their deficit as well.

Wanna compare Swedish and Russian GDP per capita with their deficit per capita?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Serb
We have a long history of hostile relationships.

We also have a long history of not invading each other. (Yes, I know about American support of the Whites.)

We tried to improve our relationships. Damn we even ocasionly collapsed during that process. And what did we get? We have no Warsaw Pact anymore, but NATO is growing, Americans bomb whatever they wish and nobody care a **** about that. First Iraq, then Serbia, then Afghanistan, now Iraq again. Yeah world is a better place for living now, a much safer place. And sure we don't need to worry about NATO's expansion.

Reread this:

We've made a precedent of attacking small, easily defeated ME nations ruled by what Americans universally agree are ruled by tyrannical dictatorships and setting up new governments in them. Last time I checked, Russia wasn't in the ME.

[Serb]

So what? You think we should be happy about the fact that you still maintain the alliance which was created to fight Russia?
And it isn't only a precedent of attacking small, easily defeated ME nations, but a precedent of violation of UN charter. It means nobody can feel safe now.
Plus you re-elected King George II. That makes things even worse.

[Ned]

Serb, you know my feelings on this. The US ought to dump Nato and set up a new alliance system that would include Russia, rearranging things to approximately where they were at the end of WWII, but this time France and Germany being on the same page.

[Serb]

And this alliance will oppose what power? Nepal? Albania?
Just face it Ned, the whole point of NATO is to counter Russia. If Russia in, the NATO (or whatever name such alliance will have) lose its meaning completely.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Serb
So what? You think we should be happy about the fact that you still maintain the alliance which was created to fight Russia?
And it isn't only a precedent of attacking small, easily defeated ME nations, but a precedent of violation of UN charter. It means nobody can feel safe now.
Plus you re-elected King George II. That makes things even worse.

Why do I bother?

[Serb]

You tell me.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Serb
And this alliance will oppose what power? Nepal? Albania?
Just face it Ned, the whole point of NATO is to counter Russia. If Russia in, the NATO (or whatever name such alliance will have) lose its meaning completely.

Britain, Russia, the USA, plus others who would like to join. On the other side are France, Germany and their allies, the fascist Arabs and Islamo-fascist terrorists.

I hope you took note that the French were waving their flag at Arafat's funeral today and that Saddam was a good buddy of Chirac's.

[Sandman]

Saddam and Rummy were chums as well.