Secession: Has it become a reasonable idea?

[Kidlicious]

California should go break on it's own. We don't need any clinger oners.

[Patroklos]

Northern and Southern california will erupt into civil war the second they gain independence.

Do you honestly think NYC and Boston are going to play nice?

And just wait until NY tries to take back the Statue of Liberty...

[Kidlicious]

Of course we will erupt into civil war after we kill be governator. But the North will win.

[Patroklos]

South California has all the military facilities of your state. Granted all the men and material will have abandoned the hippies for the US, but you will have a few runnways and dry docks to work with.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Northern and Southern california will erupt into civil war the second they gain independence.

Do you honestly think NYC and Boston are going to play nice?

And just wait until NY tries to take back the Statue of Liberty...

First point, the world isn't a video game. Second point, if a secession were to happen (which it won't) it certainly wouldn't happen in the way you've described.

And anyway, most of the weapons are located in the south, but they do not belong to it, they belong to the federal government. If the country were split, so would the weapons, probably by proportion to GDP (as in who paid for them)... so the North would get most of them.

[lord of the mark]

federated states will be in trouble when the central "T" of Pennsylvania breaks off to rejoin the US. Of course they will need contact with Virginia. Easy, via "red" Western Md. Of course blue parts of northern VA will try to support the federation. Where i live will be right on the front line.

Could make a nice civ scenario i suppose.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


First point, the world isn't a video game. Second point, if a secession were to happen (which it won't) it certainly wouldn't happen in the way you've described.

And anyway, most of the weapons are located in the south, but they do not belong to it, they belong to the federal government. If the country were split, so would the weapons, probably by proportion to GDP (as in who paid for them)... so the North would get most of them.

let me guess, you think quebec secession is feasible, right?

This is nothing more than verbal gaming. Coalitions shift. in 1976 Jimmy Carter won most of the South. the blue states are filled with conservatives, nascar race fans, and guys who join the Marines. The red states have liberals, gays, etc. AFAIK only one state went over 70% for anyone candidate (Utah, for Bush). We are one nation.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


let me guess, you think quebec secession is feasible, right?

This is nothing more than verbal gaming. Coalitions shift. in 1976 Jimmy Carter won most of the South. the blue states are filled with conservatives, nascar race fans, and guys who join the Marines. The red states have liberals, gays, etc. AFAIK only one state went over 70% for anyone candidate (Utah, for Bush). We are one nation.

I do think its feasible, but its a completely different animal. Seccession in Canada is culturally based, in the US (which is pie in the sky at this point) its ideological.

Besides, you're assumeing that seccession = civil war. Thats not true.

[Patroklos]

And anyway, most of the weapons are located in the south, but they do not belong to it, they belong to the federal government. If the country were split, so would the weapons, probably by proportion to GDP (as in who paid for them)... so the North would get most of them.

So after the North disolves the sacred Union you think the rest of the country will just say "hey, I think it is fair to give you this portion." Do you think the majority of the military would just give away their material as well? Pipe Dream, the North would get nothing, becuase the sailors and airmen who are up there will get in their subs and planes and fly South.

And you forget who the "legitimate" US government will be. Hint, is sure as hell would not be the rebellious North. So all those oaths the officers and enlisted took would work in the favor of the West and South, becuase since the liberals killed state loyalty there will be no Civil War type side shifting. Not that it matters, if the servicemen were going by state loyalty they would end up in the West and South anyways.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Patroklos


So after the North disolves the sacred Union you think the rest of the country will just say "hey, I think it is fair to give you this portion." Do you think the majority of the military would just give away their material as well? Pipe Dream, the North would get nothing, becuase the sailors and airmen who are up there will get in their subs and planes and fly South.

And you forget who the "legitimate" US government will be. Hint, is sure as hell would not be the rebellious North. So all those oaths the officers and enlisted took would work in the favor of the West and South, becuase since the liberals killed state loyalty there will be no Civil War type side shifting. Not that it matters, if the servicemen were going by state loyalty they would end up in the West and South anyways.

Yeah, because no soldiers come from the North.

As I recall, DC voted around 90% Kerry. They're solidly Northern culturally, so you would lose it meaning the federal government as we know it would effectively be dissolved. You certainlty wouldn't have any claim to beining the "real US".

And I'm sure if there was a split, it would be internationally mediated. It wouldn't completely up to the south to decide what they keep and what they don't... unless they want to become a roque state.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Yeah, I am sure that is how it would work.

I would like to point out which states the majority of the military power is concentrated, as well as where the majority of the people manning that power come from, and then who they voted for in the election.

Have fun accessing your offshore account from your smoking crater.

All Right! Threats and violence! That's what I call occupying the moral high ground!

[alva]

Don't forget that France would happy to use it's power to come to the aid ......never mind.

[Patroklos]

it would be internationally mediated

HAHAHAHA, really wiping away tears at that.

If you remember, which I doubt you do, not only did the District of Columbia try and secede in the Civil War, but also all of surrounding Maryland. Physical control of the capital is not really important, especially since our leader is the popular and electoral winner of a legitimate election. Who is the leader of the North? And we would of course occupy DC anyways.

It is a mute point, your not expelling the majority of the country, your seceding from the US. How can you be the legitimate owner of an US property if you are actively leaving the entity?

And I doubt you would find too may people willing to help you internationally. All those treaties that bind us legally, militarily, and culturally to Western civilization reside with the good old USA, not the Rebel scum. Not that they would help us, but they would certaintly be hands off when it came to any rebellious states.

There are indeed alot of soldiers from the North, but most now live in the South and have for most of their careers. I know alot of Northerners who have now lived most of their adult lives in the South/West because of their jobs, and while some still talk well of their original home, they have no intention of going back. I am one of these people.

[axi]

Why doesn't anybody make a civ3 scenario out of this?

Each state will be a city. We will build enough temples & culture to the big rural states so that their border covers enough space. The northeastern ones will be crumbed up a little bit, but we'll start building from there and see how it fits.

We will have Bush Country, Kerry Country, Canada and Mexico on the map and we will have "individual state seccessionists" pull up at random. Kerry country will have a definite capital problem, with best option probably to move from DC to Illinois. For Bush country Texas is ok.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Let federal government cut taxes and services as much as it wants. Laugh as poor red states realise they've been living off charity.