Paging Ben Kenobi... wager's due!

[DaShi]

Wow! Ben's avatar completely changed my opinion on gay marriage. I support it now and will do whatever I can to guarantee this right to all homosexuals who want it.

But I'm sticking to my hardline anti-abortion stance. I'm sure that there's no avatar in the world that could change my opinion on that.

[:) Smiley]

Those new settlers are going to be so confused when they see the avatar with some of the posts.

[Ben Kenobi]

Bump for Guynemer. You might want to make your avatar ready when Boris's comes off on the 17th.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Smiley
Those new settlers are going to be so confused when they see the avatar with some of the posts.

I was confused at first... then I thought that he was just being a smart ass.

Ben, what made you think Bush would possibly get 2/3 of the electoral votes with the crappy economy and the questionable war situation?

[joncha]

He doesn't let little things like reality get in the way of his predictions.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, what made you think Bush would possibly get 2/3 of the electoral votes with the crappy economy and the questionable war situation?

I made the prediction back in March.

I thought, if the best the Dems can run is Kerry, than Bush will win easily.

I was also looking at the financing gap. At the time, Kerry had almost no money to campaign, and Clark had tried to put the nail in his coffin by raising all the Hanoi Jane stuff, after being forced to concede the primary.

[johncmcleod]

Those new settlers are going to be so confused when they see the avatar with some of the posts.

It confused the hell out of me.

I don't have that big of a problem with social conservatism, I just have a problem with people like Bush who defy our constitution and build our laws around it, forcing everyone to live by their own view of God.

I agree with Ben. The dems will never again win with a N'reastern liberal. The only dems that will win will be the ones like Carter and Clinton, who grew up in socially conservative environments and know how to deal with the backwards rednecks without offending them.

But the democratic party is falling. The republicans are so far to the right that they can't move any farther. They don't need to worry about ultra conservatives not voting for them. But as for the dems, there is so much room out in left field that the party is falling apart. There are the very liberal democrats who want America to be more like a European welfare state, and there are the moderates.

But that isn't he biggest problem. The biggest problem is the democratic party does not have what the republicans have. Something to stand upon. Back in the 60s, the democrats stood for progress and civil rights and things were going great. They had guys like JFK (not that I like JFK, he was even more imperialistic than some other US presidents). And it looked like the republicans would fall. But they don't have that anymore. They don't stand for anything strong. All they are is the 'party a little more liberal than the republicans.' Yet the republicans are different. They have something to stand upon. They can say 'we stand upon fighting the war on terror and having an [intolerant] socially conservative society.'

Dark times will fall upon America within the next few decades. That is a bet I am willing to make, and if I am wrong, I will use any avatar of anyone's choice.

[Straybow]

No, an "intolerant" socially conservative society would be beating the gays back into the closet. A tolerant socially conservative society allows deviant behavior but doesn't accede to demands to have their lifestyles given legal approval or protection.

[Ben Kenobi]

The problem that I see, is that outside of Roosevelt, the Democrats have only won when there has been division inside the Republican party.

The only one that does not fall into this pattern is LBJ.

[johncmcleod]

No, a truly tolerant society would say this:

"We don't really agree with your lifestyle, but because we believe in acceptance; separation of church and state; life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that the Bible was written by an ancient culture and times have changed; and in the golden rule; and we understand that the reason you desire a mate of the same gender is a biological mutation; we will therefore accept you both legally and socially."

The problem that I see, is that outside of Roosevelt, the Democrats have only won when there has been division inside the Republican party.

Yes, and with the war on terror and all the nationalism, the republican party will be united and not divided.

[Ben Kenobi]

that the reason you desire a mate of the same gender is a biological mutation; we will therefore accept you both legally and socially."

So their love is only because of their genes?

I find that an abhorrent conclusion.

[johncmcleod]

I don't. It is the same way with heterosexuals. Their love is similar. Humans have evolved so they will reproduce. This is where love came from.

[Ben Kenobi]

Call me a romantic, but I will choose the woman I want to marry, and not for any other reason.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


So their love is only because of their genes?

I find that an abhorrent conclusion.

Love is a gift from God

[Kuciwalker]

Just because love is a genetic phenomenon (which it isn't, in fact... the concept of romantic love is inherited mostly from society, not genetically) doesn't make it any less real or valuable.