The OFFICIAL United States Presidential Election Thread! III

[Drachasor]

Sprayber, I have mentioned Kerry's faults twice now in this thread already. Do you need glasses or something?

Here's a third time:

Kerry did have a flawed campaign, though he is not a flawed candidate. He should have made a stronger issue of how Bush has lied, gotten the media to start talking about it, called out Karl Rove on what he has done and how Bush trusts him, and done numerous other things. Admittedly, it is hard to be honest when the media doesn't say how honest people are being, it just does "he said, she said" reporting. Still, Kerry could have done better.*

-Drachasor

*Kerry wasn't horribly inconsistent however; that impression if the result of negative aids and the invariable voting record one gets by working in the Sentate--the latter is why so few Senaters manage to become President.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Jaguar

He isn't a very constructive person. Mostly he organizes filibusters and obstructions against Republicans. Hence, they hate him.

To be fair the Republicans were sending up very partisan legislation and the minority party has few options other then to filibuster. Filibustering was something the Republicans often did when they were the minority party so it is two faced to whine about it now.

[Robert]

Ignorant; most of the Bush voters were horribly ignorant.

Deal with it, obviously about 80% of the voters is ignorant. 50% of them votes democratic, 50% of them votes republican. That's democracy, even the fools may vote.

I'll tell you, overhere in the netherlands, if I talk to people who support Kerry (about 99,9999%) are absolutely ignorant about the issue.
They just reproduce what the media told them.

Ignorance is the keyword to our society. Most people have an opinion with hardly any background.

I salut Apolyton for being different. Go us!

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Drachasor
Here's a third time:

Kerry did have a flawed campaign, though he is not a flawed candidate. He should have made a stronger issue of how Bush has lied, gotten the media to start talking about it, called out Karl Rove on what he has done and how Bush trusts him, and done numerous other things. Admittedly, it is hard to be honest when the media doesn't say how honest people are being, it just does "he said, she said" reporting. Still, Kerry could have done better.*

-Drachasor

So it was the people around him? Not Kerry?

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Jaguar
Drach:

First of all, as you're willing to admit, those tactics were likely not planned by Rove. I think that an 8-year-old could make flyers telling people to vote on November 3rd. I also doubt that any serious damage was intended, or done by those flyers. If you saw a flyer like that posted somewhere, would you think it was a brilliang Rovian scheme, or would you think that it was a joke? And also, just how ****ing dumb do you think Black people are? Are they not smart enough to know when election day is?

I am sure Rove had tactics that were equally vile that he implemented. I just don't have the resources and knolwedge to track down which ones are his and which ones belong to other people.

The flyers were put on people's doors. The idea wouldn't be to convince everyone, but you might convince a few. There are gullible people in any population.

The flyer tactic though, as admittedly weak for Rove. That phone message is on his level more in effectiveness (Rove's flyer attacks are typically more effective).

-Drachasor

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Drachasor


Except, as I stated on the first page, most Bush supporters were horrible wrong on the facts.=

Dp you think that this is the first and only time people may have made decisions that you disagree with?

Should they be disinfranchised?

What are you on about?

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Sprayber
So it was the people around him? Not Kerry?

Kerry is responsible for his campaign manager.

As hard as it is to admit, he should have started off with the harsher and less honest tactics he ended up using. Those tactics work best in the current environment. It is his fault for not reading the system and the people as well as he should of, and not getting the best manager.

His campaign was pretty weak, considering everything there was to throw at Bush.*

-Drachasor

*And I am not talking about Moore-ian crap.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by aaglo
Oh boy, it's starting to look like that you Americans missed your chance to correct the wrong.

If Bush really gets chosen, then it's official: American people are as stupid as my looks.

No, it just means that your opinion really doesn't matter as much as you thought it did.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Dp you think that this is the first and only time people may have made decisions that you disagree with?

Should they be disinfranchised?

What are you on about?

This isn't about a decision I disagree with. It is about making a decision they don't understand properly because they don't know the facts; they know and believe lies. That is objectively true.

This sort of thing damages the very validity of the election, imho.

As such, I don't think it is vile of Kerry to push every flaw in our antiquated Electoral System that he can to try to achieve victory. It serves a dual-use by also pointing out how our system is flawed.

-Drachasor

[Dinner]

It's clear the people who are screwed up are the leadership of the Democratic Party. This is twice in a row they've screwed up a sure thing.

[dannubis]

hmmm

a topped thread for an election ?

on a side note : a slept very well tonight

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Drachasor


This isn't about a decision I disagree with. It is about making a decision they don't understand properly because they don't know the facts; they know and believe lies. That is objectively true.

This sort of thing damages the very validity of the election, imho.

As such, I don't think it is vile of Kerry to push every flaw in our antiquated Electoral System that he can to try to achieve victory. It serves a dual-use by also pointing out how our system is flawed.

-Drachasor

No. What's objectively true is that you can't accept that others might disagree with you and have valid reasons for doing so.

If your system is so flawed, and the results just can't be trusted, what's to stop the Army from saying that they are preserving the Republic by overturning any given election that the Cheif of Staff thinks went the wrong way?

Do you see where this leads?

Count the votes and accept it. Don't be a *****.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Drachasor


Kerry is responsible for his campaign manager.

As hard as it is to admit, he should have started off with the harsher and less honest tactics he ended up using. Those tactics work best in the current environment. It is his fault for not reading the system and the people as well as he should of, and not getting the best manager.

His campaign was pretty weak, considering everything there was to throw at Bush.*

-Drachasor

*And I am not talking about Moore-ian crap.

The US didn't owe Kerry anything. It was up to HIM to persuade enough of the American people that he would make a better president. That should have been fairly easy considering all the people that hate bush. poor showing in iraq. anything but a good economy.

With all things being considered it should have been really easy to defeat Bush. You seem to put most of the blame on the people. I'm more inclined to see it as a poor messenger. I suppose we will see who the Democratic party blames.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by dannubis
hmmm

a topped thread for an election ?

on a side note : a slept very well tonight

To many other people kept trying to make their own so the mods locked the other threads and topped this one to make it easy for people to find.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Sprayber
The US didn't owe Kerry anything. It was up to HIM to persuade enough of the American people that he would make a better president. That should have been fairly easy considering all the people that hate bush. poor showing in iraq. anything but a good economy.

With all things being considered it should have been really easy to defeat Bush. You seem to put most of the blame on the people. I'm more inclined to see it as a poor messenger. I suppose we will see who the Democratic party blames.

That's a nice little rant, but I never said the US owed Kerry anything.

I also said Kerry was responsible for the poor campaign, in the very text you quoted. Please reread it again.

-Drachasor