Controversial Dutch Filmmaker Theo van Gogh killed

[Saint Marcus]

I used to feel the same, but after recent weeks (and I don't mean the murder of Van Gogh) I'm seriously considering migrating out of here...

[Locutus]

Originally posted by WotanAnubis
On the "Greatest Dutchman Election" I have one thing to say: if only Fortuyn hadn't been shot. Then he'd have made such a mess of things that nobody would even consider him for the top ten

Couldn't agree more there...

and then that other guy who went against the establishment and got shot would've won.

Nope, he was shot too late. The contest was already well on its way when he was shot, so he didn't even make it into the top 100. Had the contest been a few months later I'm sure he would have been though...

d have voted for that Rembrandt feller, he painted some real good pictures, even if they wuz kinda dark.

I had a thread about this a few weeks ago, my top three would be Willem Van Oranje, Erasmus and Thorbecke. Of course, Thorbecke didn't even make it into the top ten

But indeed, there are so many great candidates that could've taken the place of Fortuyn in the top ten: Thorbecke, Hugo Grotius, Anton Philips, Anthony Fokker, M. C. Escher, Abel Tasman, Spinoza, Huygens, Johan Van Oldenbarneveld, Queen Wilhemina, etc...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Locutus


Couldn't agree more there...



Nope, he was shot too late. The contest was already well on its way when he was shot, so he didn't even make it into the top 100. Had the contest been a few months later I'm sure he would have been though...



I had a thread about this a few weeks ago, my top three would be Willem Van Oranje, Erasmus and Thorbecke. Of course, Thorbecke didn't even make it into the top ten

But indeed, there are so many great candidates that could've taken the place of Fortuyn in the top ten: Thorbecke, Hugo Grotius, Anton Philips, Anthony Fokker, M. C. Escher, Abel Tasman, Spinoza, Huygens, Johan Van Oldenbarneveld, Queen Wilhemina, etc...

I was wondering if Spinoza would count, he was born in Portugal, no?

And if Tasman, how about Van Diemen?


Who was Thorbecke?

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Locutus

Originally posted by me
and then that other guy who went against the establishment and got shot would've won.

Nope, he was shot too late. The contest was already well on its way when he was shot, so he didn't even make it into the top 100. Had the contest been a few months later I'm sure he would have been though...

I was talking about Oranje, not Theo.

And lord of the mark, Thorbecke was basically the guy responsible for turning our monarchy into a democracy and giving us our present day constitution.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I was wondering if Spinoza would count, he was born in Portugal, no?

No, his parents were from Portugal, he himself was born in Amsterdam and AFAIK lived all his life in various cities in the Netherlands.

And if Tasman, how about Van Diemen?

Sure, him and if you want two-three dozen other explorers, governers, admirals, etc...

Who was Thorbecke?

He wrote the modern Dutch constitution in 1848. He's roughly to the Netherlands what the authors of the Declaration of Independence were to the US (not an entirely fair comparison as the authors of the Declaration were also the most prominent leaders in the American independence war, while the Netherlands had already been independent for centuries by Thorbecke's time -- but the manuscripts themselves were of equal importance).

[germanos]

Originally posted by Locutus


On one hand it's lame to discredit the result if you organised the election, on the other hand it's even lamer that Fortuyn was even allowed to participate, let alone win ...

Now now, not allowed to win? It appears with the 'new results' the orginizers are just trying that

Don't get too worked up about a lame popularity contest though. It isn't worth your energy.


It's good to see that posters here are aware of magnificent Dutchmen as Erasmus, Spinoza, Hugo de Groot (Grotius) etc. It's just a pity our Golden Age is over. And in general you only get one . We're now stuck with people like Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh. We're still liked abroad, so all can't be that bad

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by germanos


It's good to see that posters here are aware of magnificent Dutchmen as Erasmus, Spinoza, Hugo de Groot (Grotius) etc. It's just a pity our Golden Age is over. And in general you only get one . We're now stuck with people like Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh. We're still liked abroad, so all can't be that bad

Piet Mondrian. You guys may forget about him, since many of his best works are in US museums.

But thats what happens in a Golden Age, you not only produce culture, you grab everyone else's

[germanos]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Piet Mondrian. You guys may forget about him, since many of his best works are in US museums.

But thats what happens in a Golden Age, you not only produce culture, you grab everyone else's

Nononono
First: his best works are here. If you ever have the chance, go the the Hague Municipal Musuem where they have a big collection. Second place to visit is the Kröller-Muller museum, which has a wonderfull collection of modernist art.

Secondly, in a Golden Age the people flock to you . Mondriaan made a lot of work when living in New York. Some regard this period as his best.

The Dutch Golden Age was build to a large extent by immigrants as well, and your question on Spinoza is just a small example.

[germanos]

Originally posted by germanos
Well, the Minister of Justice thinks he has found the solution to the recent problems: He wants to wake a law against blasphemy from the dead.

Thankfully the Christian Democrats have a coalition with two liberal parties, so it won't fly

*(insert blasphemous remark here)

update:
This has given the Minister a huge backlash. In fact it looks that parliament is going to scrap the (dead) law from the roll.
R.I.P. art. 147 and 147a

*(insert praise for deity of your choice here)

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

There's a slight problem here, since the Albigensian Crusade took place in an area that a) was effectively outside the king's control before the war, and b) accounted for less than half the potential income of France in any way.

The Feudal system was set up it I hold afief from a Great Baron (Noble with highter rank than Baron) I have to pay taxes to my overlord and pay apart of the rent I collect to my overlord and he or she in turn have to do the samething to his or her overload. The Lord of the Albigensian area paid taxes and part of the rent they collect to the King of France.

The King of France only have direct control over his personal fief near Paris. The only King to have some control over his entire Kingdom was the King of England,
but when King John went too far in takeing power from the Great Baron's they rebel than won force him to sign the Great Chater. Italy have no central government at that time.

[CharlesBHoff]

The Texas Law I talk about date from when Texas was than indepence nation also. It worked as destory other place of Workship rarely happen now in Texas.

The new Antiterrorism law willnot work the way the people think the Far Right Christian in Holland will use it to take control of Holland than form than NeoFascot state.

The ruleing Conservative Christian Social Union (CSU) party in Bavaria remind me of the Nazie Party as many Christian People support the Nazie Party and vote it into power in 1934.

[Sikander]

By the year 2100 AD well more than half of the Muslim population will be dead.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff
The ruleing Conservative Christian Social Union (CSU) party in Bavaria remind me of the Nazie Party as many Christian People support the Nazie Party and vote it into power in 1934.

Godwin alert!

[Kuciwalker]

BeBro, this is CBH.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff


The Feudal system was set up it I hold afief from a Great Baron (Noble with highter rank than Baron) I have to pay taxes to my overlord and pay apart of the rent I collect to my overlord and he or she in turn have to do the samething to his or her overload. The Lord of the Albigensian area paid taxes and part of the rent they collect to the King of France.

No. The obligations of the royal vassals were of military and administrative nature.

But that's not the point. The point is, the South was practically independent. That's why a war was needed to bring it into the royal fold in the first place!