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380 TONS of Explosives (HMX, RDX) in Iraq Left Unsecured, Now Looted!

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  • Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms


    By Bill Gertz
    THE WASHINGTON TIMES


    Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.
    John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.







    "The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."
    Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloging the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.
    Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon, and possibly to Iran, he said.
    The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons, including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX, is still being investigated, Mr. Shaw said.
    The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said.
    Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment.
    The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10 from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
    Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material.
    Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said.
    "That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."
    The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said in a statement yesterday.
    A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May 27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past by the IAEA.
    The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of explosives from the facility after April 6.
    "The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said.
    The statement also said that the material may have been removed from the site by Saddam's regime.
    According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that the seals were not broken.
    It is not known whether the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The U.N. team left the country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20, 2003.
    A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria.
    The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov, the former Russian intelligence chief, could not persuade Saddam to give in to U.S. and Western demands, this official said.
    A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said.
    However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.
    The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the country.
    Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots.
    The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.
    Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.
    The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.
    Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said.
    "Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said.
    Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.
    The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.
    Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.
    The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said.
    Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.
    The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive.
    Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.
    Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein’s weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.


    Why can't you admit the truth that the explosives were removed before the invasion?
    'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
    G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

    Comment


    • Because the claim is entirely based on a single person who hadn't provided any evidence, the Pentagon spokesman rejected the idea, and the Russians contradicted the claim:

      The Russian embassy in Washington rejected the claims as “nonsense”, saying there were no Russian military in the country at the time.

      Mr Shaw, who heads the Pentagon’s international armament and technology trade directorate, has not provided evidence for his claims and the Pentagon distanced itself from his remarks.

      “I am unaware of any particular information on that point,” said Larry Di Rita, Pentagon spokesman.




      Why do you bother posting anything from the Moonies? They're hacks, not journalist.
      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
      -Bokonon

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ramo
        Because the claim is entirely based on a single person who hadn't provided any evidence, the Pentagon spokesman rejected the idea, and the Russians contradicted the claim:

        Why do you bother posting anything from the Moonies? They're hacks, not journalist.
        And why do you all continue to believe Kerry and the NYT when military commanders on the ground, embedded journalists, and other eye witnesses have conclusively testified that the NYT story is false?

        Maybe the Russians were not invoved, but the fact remains the explosives were removed before the invasion.

        There is plenty of evidence that the explosives were removed before the invasions. In fact, military commanders from the 101 and the 3rd ID have said that they did properly secure the sites and did guard all the roads going in and out of the area making it impossible for content to have been removed after the war.

        And yet, you guys refuse to admit this because you are so convinced that it's all Bush's fault. It's tiresome.
        'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
        G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by The diplomat
          And why do you all continue to believe Kerry and the NYT when military commanders on the ground, embedded journalists, and other eye witnesses have conclusively testified that the NYT story is false?
          I would trust the Sun more than any military commander talking to the press while on duty.

          Retiree commanders are probably more trustworthy. But on-duty commanders are supposed to say whatever doesn't embarass the State. If it means open lies, they'll do it without any hesitation.
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

          Comment


          • Those hack claims have already been refuted. In this thread. In response to your own posts. Multiple times.

            To repeat:

            The commander, Col. Joseph Anderson, of the Second Brigade of the Army's 101st Airborne Division, said he did not learn until this week that the site, Al Qaqaa, was considered sensitive, or that international inspectors had visited it before the war began in 2003 to inspect explosives that they had tagged during a decade of monitoring.

            Colonel Anderson, who is now the chief of staff for the division and who spoke by telephone from Fort Campbell, Ky., said his troops had been driving north toward Baghdad and had paused at Al Qaqaa to make plans for their next push.

            "We happened to stumble on it,'' he said. "I didn't know what the place was supposed to be. We did not get involved in any of the bunkers. It was not our mission. It was not our focus. We were just stopping there on our way to Baghdad. The plan was to leave that very same day. The plan was not to go in there and start searching. It looked like all the other ammunition supply points we had seen already."



            AR: Was there a search at all underway or was, did a search ensue for explosives once you got there during that 24-hour period?

            LLJ: No. There wasn't a search. The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away.



            As for the roads supposedly being secure, no one has said that the roads have been secure for the past year and a half. In fact, no one has said how secure the roads were initially. How many troops were posted? How many check points? In fact, this claim is contradicted by eye-witness Iraqis employed at the place, who describe an "orgy of looting."
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

            Comment


            • Ramo,

              All the roads that would have to be used out of neccesity are at the center of the logistic supply line supplying Bagdad. That means there are daily convoys of dozens of trucks, all the security to go with it, plus 24-7 air recon coverage. It is not possible for it to have happend like you say, even if it was secured by "accident".

              The Russian connection has always been known, it is just the first time it has been applied to this. Might as well deny the French connection to Iraq via oil as well while your on your Bush hating bing.
              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

              Comment


              • Source?

                And as I keep saying, the Allawi gov't has contradicted your claiim (among many others).
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The diplomat


                  And why do you all continue to believe Kerry and the NYT when military commanders on the ground, embedded journalists, and other eye witnesses have conclusively testified that the NYT story is false?
                  Provenly false wrt to quantity it would seem at least.

                  Why let facts get in the way of accusation tho?
                  "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                  “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Boshko


                    They've had well over a year and I'm sure they weren't doing it all on foot.
                    Extremely doubtful. You've got the 3rd ID going in which you say didn't do an adequate inventory of the sprawling Al Qaaqaa base. Same for te 101st airborne. But in May there was a third special unit sent to inventory the site and they likewise found no evidence of IAEA quarrantined materials.

                    So lets for argument sake say the first two don't count the worst case is that there were approximately 60 days to pull off the feat.

                    Now lets say the ABC report is correct in its report that there was essentially no RDX (only 3 tons) at the Al QaaQaa facility on or around time of invasion. That leaves 239 tons that would need to be moved in roughly 60 days.

                    To my mind improbable.
                    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                    “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                    Comment


                    • Allawi government has said the explosives are missing, and that the DON'T KNOW when they went missing. Why exactly would Allawi know anyting about clandestine Russian activities prior to the war. He could agree with me and I would still say he was talking out of his ass.

                      And why the hell would I believe the first hand reports of three seperate inspection by US Special Forces who are probobly the most skilled at their profession in the world.
                      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Patroklos
                        Allawi government has said the explosives are missing, and that the DON'T KNOW when they went missing. Why exactly would Allawi know anyting about clandestine Russian activities prior to the war. He could agree with me and I would still say he was talking out of his ass.

                        And why the hell would I believe the first hand reports of three seperate inspection by US Special Forces who are probobly the most skilled at their profession in the world.
                        Hello? The 101st Airborne didn't inspect ANYTHING. How many times do you have to read the news before you comprehend it. No inspection was done until late May.

                        HMX explosives are still uncertain.

                        In any case, the fact the Bush Administration already admitted it didn't and doesn't have the troops necessary to secure all the compounds containing dangerous explosives is a pretty shocking admission.

                        -Drachasor
                        "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

                        Comment


                        • Blaming the Russians now... when did Bush supporters become such a one-dimensional charicature of themselves?

                          Comment


                          • If the Russions stole it, they probably did it after April 18th 2003, because that day the explosive were filmed in al Qaqaa yet.

                            watch the video
                            read the story

                            justice is might

                            Comment


                            • I am sorry, but that claim about the Russian being in Iraq is so utterly absurd - how the **** does anyone believe a paper that would print such utter insanity?
                              If you don't like reality, change it! me
                              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GePap
                                I am sorry, but that claim about the Russian being in Iraq is so utterly absurd - how the **** does anyone believe a paper that would print such utter insanity?
                                Whats absurd is the possibility that someone at defense might have posed the possibility to WaTi.

                                And I do agree that blaming the dreaded Ruskies (just days before our allies with our empathy going out to them re: beslan) stinks to high heaven.
                                "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                                “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                                Comment

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