380 TONS of Explosives (HMX, RDX) in Iraq Left Unsecured, Now Looted!

[The diplomat]

The looting hypothesis is not valid. This is sensitive material. You just don't stuff RDX in your pocket and walk around with it. it requires trucks and careful loading and unloading.

The fact is that it was removed before our troops arrived. There was plenty of time before the invasion for Saddam to remove the material without anyone knowing about it.

To blame this on our amazing and courageous soldiers is despicable.

[Ramo]

No, RDX is so valuable because it isn't that sensitive. According to Wiki:

At room temperatures, it is a very stable product. It burns rather than explodes, and only detonates with a detonator, being unaffected even by small arms fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDX

[Ramo]

What is still not addressed is the likelihood of 380 tons the equivalent of 40 tractor trailor loads being lifted in an area where roads were completely in control of the US forces were it a matter of looting.

Exactly how secure were the roads? Were they secure throughout the occupation?

[Ramo]

BAGHDAD (AFP) - A top Iraqi science official said it was impossible that 350 tonnes of high explosives could have been smuggled out of a military site south of Baghdad before the regime fell last year.


The UN nuclear watchdog this week said about 350 tonnes of high explosives went missing from a weapons dump some time after Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime was toppled in April 2003 after the US-led invasion .


But as the issue of the missing explosives took centre stage in the final days of the US presidential campaign, some US officials have suggested they had gone before the US-led forces moved on Baghdad.


"It is impossible that these materials could have been taken from this site before the regime's fall," said Mohammed al-Sharaa, who heads the science ministry's site monitoring department and previously worked with UN weapons inspectors under Saddam.


"The officials that were inside this facility (Al-Qaqaa) beforehand confirm that not even a shred of paper left it before the fall and I spoke to them about it and they even issued certified statements to this effect which the US-led coalition was aware of."


Sharaa also warned that other nearby sites with similar materials could have also been plundered.


"The Al-Milad Company in Iskandariyah and the Yarmouk and Hateen facilities contained explosive materials that could have also been taken out," the official told AFP in an interview.


The Al-Qaqaa facility is near the town of Latifiyah, 30 kilometers (18 miles) south of Baghdad and the bulk of materials in question include HMX (high melting point explosive) and RDX (rapid detonation explosive), which experts say can be used in major bombing attacks, making missile warheads and detonating nuclear weapons.


The area in Babil province, which includes the towns of Iskandariyah and Mahmudiyah, used to be the centre of Saddam's military-industrial complex.


It is now one of the most dangerous parts of the country rife with crime, kidnappings and attacks. Several headless bodies hav been found in the area, according to marines stationed there.


"It may be already too late to salvage many of these sites, which are controlled by bandits and beyond the control of Iraqi forces," warned Sharaa.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/iraq_us_explosives

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

NM

[Ramo]

NM too.

[The Mad Monk]

So, they just kept all that materiel in well-marked, easily located bunkers, even though they knew we were going to attack?

Nice of them to make it so easy for our bombers.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by The diplomat
To blame this on our amazing and courageous soldiers is despicable.

No one is blaming this on our soldiers.


We're blaming this on our leadership.

[Bosh]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Simple question, Boshko, how does your piece in any way prove the munitions were not stolen prior or during invasion? All the evidence of existing materials being used by insurgents is just as likely if the stockpiles were moved prior to/during invasion.

Well I'm sure that the looting started before US soldiers got there and that it continued after the 101st Airborne and the 3rd Infantry left. The reports that we've been getting is that when the soldiers showed up there were bombs already there and looting already going on. There's no reason why some looting couldn't have started before the US arrived, but there simply wasn't enough time to haul away 380 tons nor ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that this is what happened.

It would have taken over 1 year (380 days) to make off with it on foot.

They've had well over a year and I'm sure they weren't doing it all on foot.

Which means little considering the roads were secure and the massive quantities we are talking about that would have to be moved on foot.

The roads to al-Qa Qaa have been completely secured by US forces during the entire course of the occupation?

You just don't stuff RDX in your pocket and walk around with it. it requires trucks and careful loading and unloading.

1. Why the hell couldn't they have used trucks. They've had a YEAR.
2. The stuff's inert without the detonator, that's why terrorists like it so much.
3. According to reports, looters were already starting to work when US forces arrived and for virtually the entire occupation the site has been unguarded, do you think the looters just went home?

The fact is that it was removed before our troops arrived.

There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that this is what occured.

There was plenty of time before the invasion for Saddam to remove the material without anyone knowing about it.

There was a month. That's not enough time to get the stuff out unnoticed.

To blame this on our amazing and courageous soldiers is despicable.

That's quite the spin

[Gibsie]

Well that spin is pretty much Bush's response- as ever, question what is and was done in Iraq, and you're an evil UnAmerican liberal.

[Bosh]

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=31993

interesting, very interesting:

"The officials that were inside this facility (Al-Qaqaa) beforehand confirm that not even a shred of paper left it before the fall and I spoke to them about it and they even issued certified statements to this effect which the US-led coalition was aware of."

He said officials at Al-Qaqaa, including its general director, whom he refused to name, made contact with US troops before the fall in an effort to get them to provide security for the site.

The regime's fall triggered a wave of looting of government and private property, which US-led troops struggled to contain as they were busy securing their own positions.

...

Science Minister Omar Rashad sent a letter on October 10 to the International Atomic Energy Agency sounding the alarm about the explosives in Al-Qaqaa.

Sharaa said the letter was sent after repeated warnings and inquiries by the IAEA over the disappearance of so-called duel-use nuclear material, which could be used for either conventional or nuclear means.

"Normally we should be overseeing all sites but these responsibilities were stripped away from us under the coalition authority," he said.

The ministry was only handed oversight responsiblities of two site -- Al-Tuwaitha and Al-Wardiya -- after authority was transferred from the coalition to the interim government in June.

[Bosh]

Very very interesting indeed.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/iraq_us_explosives

Iraq says 'impossible' explosives taken before regime fall

Wed Oct 27, 9:47 AM ET Mideast - AFP



BAGHDAD (AFP) - A top Iraqi science official said it was impossible that 350 tonnes of high explosives could have been smuggled out of a military site south of Baghdad before the regime fell last year.


The UN nuclear watchdog this week said about 350 tonnes of high explosives went missing from a weapons dump some time after Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime was toppled in April 2003 after the US-led invasion .


But as the issue of the missing explosives took centre stage in the final days of the US presidential campaign, some US officials have suggested they had gone before the US-led forces moved on Baghdad.


"It is impossible that these materials could have been taken from this site before the regime's fall," said Mohammed al-Sharaa, who heads the science ministry's site monitoring department and previously worked with UN weapons inspectors under Saddam.


"The officials that were inside this facility (Al-Qaqaa) beforehand confirm that not even a shred of paper left it before the fall and I spoke to them about it and they even issued certified statements to this effect which the US-led coalition was aware of."


Sharaa also warned that other nearby sites with similar materials could have also been plundered.


"The Al-Milad Company in Iskandariyah and the Yarmouk and Hateen facilities contained explosive materials that could have also been taken out," the official told AFP in an interview.


The Al-Qaqaa facility is near the town of Latifiyah, 30 kilometers (18 miles) south of Baghdad and the bulk of materials in question include HMX (high melting point explosive) and RDX (rapid detonation explosive), which experts say can be used in major bombing attacks, making missile warheads and detonating nuclear weapons.


The area in Babil province, which includes the towns of Iskandariyah and Mahmudiyah, used to be the centre of Saddam's military-industrial complex.


It is now one of the most dangerous parts of the country rife with crime, kidnappings and attacks. Several headless bodies hav been found in the area, according to marines stationed there.


"It may be already too late to salvage many of these sites, which are controlled by bandits and beyond the control of Iraqi forces," warned Sharaa.

Plain and simply there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the stuff was trucked out before the invasion. All there is is the embedded NBC reporter who swung by with the 101st Airborne, which didn't conduct any kind of search of the complex at all.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Boshko
Plain and simply there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the stuff was trucked out before the invasion. All there is is the embedded NBC reporter who swung by with the 101st Airborne, which didn't conduct any kind of search of the complex at all.

There is plenty of evidence!

In fact, according to the Washington Times, Russian troops shipped the explosives to Syria before the Iraq war.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by The diplomat
In fact, according to the Washington Times, Russian troops shipped the explosives to Syria before the Iraq war.

Next.

[Bosh]

There is plenty of evidence!

In fact, according to the Washington Times, Russian troops shipped the explosives to Syria before the Iraq war.

Link?