Catholic Bishops: Voting for Kerry is a Sin requiring Confession

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Ancyrean
Or is the American definiton of seperation of state and religion different than what I'm saying?

The is no definition of or even mention "separation of church and state" in the constituion. This is just an informal term, coined in the 1950s IIRC, to label the legal result of the interplay and balancing of two pharases in the first amendment: The 'non establishment clause' and 'free practice' of religion clause. niether of which bear upon the instant matter, except for the validity of a tax law requiring abstention from politics to have a certain tax status. If the constituion applies at all to the situation (which I do not believe it to) it would be to protect the right of a church (under 'free practice') to participate in political activity without tax disadvantage. Allowing church to be active in politic in no way offends the 'non establishment' clause. Much of what people percive about "speparation of church and state" in the USA is recent custom, rather than law. The biggest open question of "non establishment' I see currently applying to churches is special exmptions (such a tax) granted to religious activity, except that much of it would be moot, since similar exemptions commonly granted to non profit and charitable would apply to many of the same activities.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Catholic bishops have a right to their opinion.

Sure.

However, voicing political opinions in the public in the hopes of swaying people is a clear violation of State-Church Separation.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

UR did you write that before or after Lefty's expose on myth of separation of church and state?

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
However, voicing political opinions in the public in the hopes of swaying people is a clear violation of State-Church Separation.

Absolutely wrong on a legal basis. The most it might be (with little real exposure) is violation of tax exempt status. The only real ecposures are political and looking unseemly (but that mostly to non-memebers of said church).

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Any Catholics sufficiently offended are more than welcome to our parish.

In one Simpsons episode, there was a sign in front of their church: "Welcome pissed-off catholics"

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ancyrean
The church is different from any other organization regardless of its non-profit or whatever status. Religion has a different function in that it's about personal salvation in the afterlife as well as on earth. Therefore, it's completely different if a member of clergy of a religion brings religious sanction for or against a certain political choice, says this is evil or requires confession (therefore sin) to vote this way or another.

No, it's not different at all. The ONLY power a church in the US has is excommunication. That's IT. There's no coercion involved.

[Dinner]

Catholic Bishops: Voting for Kerry is a Sin requiring Confession

Stuff like this is why I could never be a Catholic. The Bible is written and I am perfectly capable of reading so why do I need some biased priest? Long live the Reformation!

[Whaleboy]

Awww come on Oerdin, if you reject Catholicism you'd be missing out on all the paedophilia

[Ming]

At least the Church isn't doing what Unions are doing... shooting people

[Whaleboy]

Point taken. I'm listening to the Rolling Stones at the moment so I feel a quote is in order for the indifferent...

"I watched with glee while your kings and queens fought for ten decades for the gods they made" -- Sympathy for the Devil

I'm done....

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ming
How is this different than a group like "labor" supporting Kerry... The church has legitimate reasons why they would like to see Bush get reelected. I'm surprised they didn't go all the way and command catholics to vote for Bush.

Because the Church is supposed to be a nonprofit organization. To be a nonprofit you have to agree to for go direct political activities; if the Catholic church wants to start paying taxes then it is welcome to start endorsing candidates. If it doesn't want to pay taxes then it needs to keep its collective mouth shut.

[Alexander's Horse]

The church is entitled to put a view on political issues and Bishops have a lot of autonomy to do that.

But this does not mean ordinary catholics pay much attention. It's not a block vote. They make up their own mind.

Probably the most underground church group would be pro-choice catholics, of which I suspect there are many in spite of what the clergy says. Just as the teachings on birth control are almost completely ignored.

Ironically I think catholic parents would be the most pro choice group. We know about the reality of reproduction and fertility.

[Dinner]

Sure, they can put their views forward but then they've broken the deal. They want to talk then they pay taxes just like everyone else. The deal is they stick to saving souls and the government declares them a nonprofit worthly of tax free status for the good work they do. All of the other religions are able to follow this rule why should Catholics get special favors?

They can play politics or they can be a nonpolitical tax free nonprofit. Which is it?

[Berzerker]

Unless it's teachers trying to get children to influence their parents.

Yeah, we get enough of that from advertisers...oops, sorry Ming.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Oerdin

They can play politics or they can be a nonpolitical tax free nonprofit. Which is it?

Does the catholic church get tax breaks in the USA that other churches don't get?