Catholic Bishops: Voting for Kerry is a Sin requiring Confession

[Dauphin]

I have no problem with bishops stating their opinions whatever they be based upon. Looking at Reverand Paisley I do shudder though.

In this case I do think it bad form to threaten the congregation by throwing out the sacrament of confession, especially considering that voting for either candidate entails abetting sinful acts.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
So, with regard to the war- Bush may or may not have acted immoraly in taking us to war, depending on whether he felt the case had some certain criteria. It is absolutely wrong for Kerry to support Abortion. And, also, Abortion has killed many, many more people (about 42 mil), much more then the Iraq war has.

Condoms have killed trillions by such logic.

Also, is Kerry being blamed for these 42 million abortions?

[Moral Hazard]

The idea of threatening churches with removal of their tax exempt status for supporting a certain candidate has been brought up. It hasn't gotten very far though.

Both parties benefit from pulpit campaigning. Black clergy will often campaign for Democratic candidates and Southern Clergy for republican candidates. The catholic church is new.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Thucydides
Isn't a church's tax-exemption status dependent on their being politically neutral? If so, would this be a violation and could you start taxing some these churches in Colorado?

Congressional leaders of all stripes have been telling the IRS for 50 years that aggressively pursuing said rules against church organizations is out of bounds, and that doing so would only result in a change in the law, and punitive legislation against the IRS. This tradition was establihed back before roe vs wade when democrats controlled congress, and the large majority of church political activisim was leftist and about socialism and pacifism. Now they reap what they have sown. I remember some early challenges on this subject re Catholic churches in my are esposing a version of 'liberation theology' going down in flames after being stonewalled at the IRS.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by dannubis
by using the institute of confession he does implicitely so.

Does implicitly what? Coerce people?

The ONLY power ANY religious organization in the US has is excommunication.

[]qand if an iman decides that voting for bush is a major sin and that if they do so, his followers can kiss their seventy virgins in the afterlife goodbye, it should also be okay then ?

he is just talking to moslims. [/q]

It should be OK no matter what. Hey, it may be a sin in their religion.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by rah
While not a big fan also, organization have as much right as individuals to participate in the political process.

Anything less would be undemocratic.

I know -- it's something we just have to deal with, but that does not preclude our right to express our disdain for it.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Ming
How is this different than a group like "labor" supporting Kerry... The church has legitimate reasons why they would like to see Bush get reelected. I'm surprised they didn't go all the way and command catholics to vote for Bush.

Well the Catholic Church hasn't been going in and roughing up Kerry supporters and shooting up their various state headquarters for one.

[Alexander's Horse]

I don't know how it works on the US but whenever a Member of the clergy tells me to vote one way I generally take that as a sure sign from God to vote the other way.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I don't know how it works on the US but whenever a Member of the clergy tells me to vote one way I generally take that as a sure sign from God to vote the other way.

amen

[Ancyrean]

dannubis

Originally posted by Ming
How is this different than a group like "labor" supporting Kerry... The church has legitimate reasons why they would like to see Bush get reelected. I'm surprised they didn't go all the way and command catholics to vote for Bush.

Originally posted by rah
While not a big fan also, organization have as much right as individuals to participate in the political process.

The church is different from any other organization regardless of its non-profit or whatever status. Religion has a different function in that it's about personal salvation in the afterlife as well as on earth. Therefore, it's completely different if a member of clergy of a religion brings religious sanction for or against a certain political choice, says this is evil or requires confession (therefore sin) to vote this way or another.

This is different from a labour group saying you should vote for Kerry. If the union member doesn't vote for him, what happens? Nobody even knows he went against the union, whereas according to this bishop, if a Catholic votes for Kerry, God will know it and it's a sin and you need to confess. This has much more powerful implication, and goes beyond the point of individual rights of bishops to participate in the political process and becomes the church participating in the process.

Besides, if we consider this following approach;

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
No, he isn't - he's using it properly, in fact!

Seperation of church and state means the government does not support any particular religion, not that the government is not supported by any religions. If people aren't allowed to vote based on what they believe, what the hell SHOULD the vote based on?

that's only half of the definition of church and state. The other half is church stays out of politics. Or is the American definiton of seperation of state and religion different than what I'm saying?

[Alexander's Horse]

That Bishop sounds a bit dotty.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I'm coming in on page 3, so I'm sure this has been said...but it bears repeating:

1) The Catholic Church is unwaivering in its opposition to abortion AND its opposition to the death penalty (a consistency I've always admired).

2) Bush has signed more death warrants than any American politician in history, and is a fervent supporter of capital punishment.

3) So, saying this about Kerry but not Bush, and then going on to say it's theology and not politics, if bullsh*t of the highest possible order.

Catholicism instilled in me a spiritualism I continue to cherish. But I've really lost all respect for that f*cking Church.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I'm by no means an expert on Catholisicm but wrt capital punishment, I beleive the Church's position gets a bit fuzzy for certain circumstances. By and large opposed to it but not without wiggle room.

Definitely not the case tho' wrt abortion.

Can anyone (Ben Kenobi?) dig up the articles of faith describing church positions on the two matters.

[Dr Strangelove]

Any Catholics sufficiently offended are more than welcome to our parish.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Any Catholics sufficiently offended are more than welcome to our parish.

Episcopalian right? Yeah, my sister the Unitarian makes me that offer, too. They're both pretty tempting...