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Your Reactions to the First Debate

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  • Flubber, Cooling of relations? Let's put it bluntly. The Canadian government has openly ridiculed the US president. And, this lack of fundamental diplomacy is the fault of the United States?
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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    • What was the issue that reduced Kerry's chances? His lack of credibility on issues of defense. Nothing (very little) he said during the debate has changed peoples minds on that issue (and with good reason).

      The 'global test' comment will haunt him.

      Kerry wont be elected.

      Lieberman would have been a better opponent for Bush.
      We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
      If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
      Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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      • For comparison regarding the above numbers:

        More Favorable Opinion of Candidate After the Debate (putting the difference between each candidates' net increase in favorability in paranthesis)

        2004
        Bush Kerry
        9/30 21 46 (Kerry +29)

        2000
        Bush Gore
        10/17 31 29 (Bush +7)
        10/11 40 24 (Bush +20)
        10/3 34 27 (Bush +11)

        1992
        Clinton Bush Perot
        10/19 27 29 63 (Clinton +1)
        10/11 29 13 62 (Clinton +26)



        In other words, Kerry's performance in the debate was more effective than any of Clinton's performances in '92 or Bush's in 2000.

        Further, 46.6 million people are estimated to have watched this debate.

        This is a huge Kerry win.
        Last edited by Ramo; October 1, 2004, 11:48.
        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

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        • Spencer, Bush did a very poor job of explaining why Kerry was a flip-flopper. Kerry may have erased that issue from the campaign with his performance.
          http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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          • Kerry won the debate but will lose the election (by a wide margin I think).
            We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
            If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
            Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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            • Originally posted by Ned
              Spencer, Bush did a very poor job of explaining why Kerry was a flip-flopper. Kerry may have erased that issue from the campaign with his performance.
              It would have been better for the outcome of the debate if Bush had been more communicative but the message about Kerry is "out there". IMO nothing else explains his poor approval ratings on defense issues and credibility (and defense is the issue that will decide this election).
              We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
              If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
              Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SpencerH
                Kerry won the debate but will lose the election (by a wide margin I think).
                I agree.

                Debates are fun but I doubt they really influence voters that much. People just don't really care who is the most intellectual or eloquent on a topic.
                'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

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                • Kerry won the debate but will lose the election (by a wide margin I think).


                  Naturally, I slightly disagree. I think Kerry won the debate, but he will WIN the election on the momentum of his debate wins (Yes, I think he'll win the next two as well).
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                  • The debates may have a big impact on this election. While they won't change the minds of the "dedicated", the non decided vote will swing this election. Since most of them probably hate both candidates, something like the debates may be all it takes to move them to Kerry's side.
                    Keep on Civin'
                    RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                    • The newspapers in my country gives a victory to Kerry by far.

                      Anyway, do you call "debate" to that?
                      Cuando un dedo señala la luna, los tontos miran el dedo. (del Mayo francés)

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                      • Originally posted by SpencerH
                        Kerry won the debate but will lose the election (by a wide margin I think).
                        Sadly, I agree with this too.
                        "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
                        "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
                        "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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                        • Kerry beat Bush on his strength, foreign policy. It only makes sense that Kerry would do even better on domestic issues. Though, the effect wouldn't be as pronounced - it's hard to see him getting yet another a net 29 point favorability boost as in this debate. Also, Kerry probably has lost his edge in the expectations game.
                          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                          -Bokonon

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                          • Bush has some inherent strenghts in debating-no, not rhetorical skills, nor the ability to put together a logical arguement to its conclusion, ut the ability to seem genuine and likeable-a common man of conviction. A lot of voters prefer that to intelligence, as they distrust smarts.

                            Kerry used to be a prosecutor and is a skilled debater, but Americans no longer seem to have the patience for someone to build a case as a prosecutor- you have to give short quips, so this negates some of his advantage.

                            Everyone always underestimates Bush-and Bush plays off this image, so that when he is not utterly crushed, he can claim victory, or at least a draw.

                            I do think thought the pundits right now are givin Bush's prefromance a better raiting than the public is.
                            If you don't like reality, change it! me
                            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                            • Agree with Ramo.

                              For SpencerH, Kontiki and the others who think that, in Argentina the former president has a 75% of the votes against him in the polls, but the same people says "he will won instead". Well, he lost (and this was tooooo good for Argentina).
                              Cuando un dedo señala la luna, los tontos miran el dedo. (del Mayo francés)

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                              • The gallup stuff is pretty interesting . . .

                                Kerry wins the debate but not by enough to change most people's views on the who's better issue.

                                On the economy I wonder will Bush keep his message as simplistic. I just have visions of Bush saying 50 times " my opponent will raise taxes, I won't"
                                You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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