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  • But, the NK's didn't abide the Clinton deal. Why shouldn't we get the Chinese involved so that Dear Leader will have to answer to his bosses in Peking if he cheats?
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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    • Originally posted by DanS
      Bush was clear and forceful on defending the United States, especially the first time that he said all of his canned stuff. His style will not play well overseas and with partisan democrats, but plays very well with his base. I don't know what it will do to the undecideds. I guess the undecideds are a hodgepodge.
      I think he will lose the undecideds who watched the debate solely due to his demeanor.
      http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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      • I think Kerry used the "outsourcing" comment to use that word, which seems to be one of the main issues people in the US have wrt the economy.

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        • Lightblue, thanks for the prompt. Now I understand Kerry's Iraq policy: Outsource everything to the French and Germans.
          http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

          Comment


          • I watched only the lat 5 minutes, since the movie I was watching ended. Kerry gave a better closing than Bush.
            If you don't like reality, change it! me
            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Boshko
              Aaaaaah, finally www.factcheck.org has an article up. Good look at BS that both participants of the debate spewed. I love this website its great to have a source that will call BS BS in a media climate that increasingly just presents both sides and doesn't bother to do any real digging:
              http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=271
              On CNN, some of the anaylsts did some of their own fact-checking right there on television, immediately after the debate.
              A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DanS


                I thought Bush owned the first part of the debate, but maybe that's entirely because he was speaking my language.
                . . . . . so you're a hopless, delusional nutcase.
                A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Whaleboy


                  Do tell me why and how?
                  You'd have to fully grasp genetics and heritary bloodlines............


                  Seriously, it was very obvious Kerry prepared for the Debate over the last few weeks. What Bush did, I don't know but he obviously had no idea this debate was comming up, I guess he thought he was showing up to a fundraiser and suprise! There was a podium and the Democratic candidate.

                  He sucked. Kerry looked "presidential" with good poise, distinct, clear answers (even though he STILL hasn't given us any freaking plan or strategy yet ), and organized.

                  Bush looked lost, confused, and somewhat mishapen in the style of Quasamoto. "I must ring the bells, I must ring the bells.........."

                  I'm still voting for Bush though. He may be an anti-French warmongering hunchback, but he's my anti-French warmongering hunchback.

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                  • Originally posted by Ned
                    Lightblue, thanks for the prompt. Now I understand Kerry's Iraq policy: Outsource everything to the French and Germans.
                    So if Kerry gets elected we will have officially outsourced the Presidency.

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                    • In the CNN internet poll of who won the debate, after 440,000 votes, Kerry leads with 70%, Bush 23% and the "Even" choice 7%.

                      Yup, those lefty biased CNN readers!
                      If you don't like reality, change it! me
                      "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                      "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                      "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                      Comment


                      • If you look at the gallup poll taken after the debate http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/D...aspx?ci=13237, its pretty clear that the independent voters thought Kerry did a better job in the "debate" by virtue of "expressing himself more clearly". Given Bushs less than stellar record as public speaker this is kinda a no brainer.

                        On the other hand the same voters said Bush beat Kerry
                        in terms of: "Agreed with you more on the issues you care about" "Was more believable" "Was more likable" "Demonstrated he is tough enough for the job".

                        Bush also wins by a wide margin in terms of "Who do you trust more to handle the responsibilities of commander in chief of the military" and " regardless of which presidential candidate you support, please tell me if you think John Kerry or George W. Bush would better handle the situation in Iraq".

                        Kerry has no credibility on the issues that americans care about. He's gonna lose big.
                        We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                        If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                        Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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                        • Look at the response Gore got on similar questions. They are invariably worse. Kerry's gonna win big.
                          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                          -Bokonon

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                          • Bush should have taken a nap. He was obviously tired.
                            http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                            Comment


                            • The key part of the Gallup poll:

                              More favorable
                              Less favorable
                              Not changed much
                              No opinion

                              Kerry
                              46%
                              13
                              41
                              *

                              Bush
                              21%
                              17
                              62
                              *

                              That's a 29 point lead that Kerry has over Bush.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
                                A reputable Australian straw poll gave it 67% to Kerry to 13% Bush, 20% undecided.

                                That result probably reflects just how little respect Bush has in Australia, and more widely internationally. A point Kerry made repeatedly.
                                The poll at CTV.ca -- (CTV is the largest privately owned TV network in Canada) had it as follows:

                                Poll Result

                                Who do you think won the U.S. Presidential debate?


                                George Bush 1487 votes (19 %)

                                John Kerry 6217 votes (81 %)



                                Disclaimer: This is not scientific and reflects the opinions of only those Internet users who have chosen to participate.

                                I know its an internet poll ( but I doubt either party would care enough to flood it)but still . . . thats quite a margin. I suspect its accurate for the following reasons


                                1. Kerry won the debate. When Bush continued to say "hard work" and failed to acknowledge that changing circumstances can lead to different decisions-- he floundered. then his justification for attacking Iraq . .. . sorry Mr Bush but Iraq never attacked you. kerry deflected and explained well the "inconsistency" that Bush tried to label him with.

                                2. Canada has felt rather snubbed by the Bush administration. We have been a staunch ally for many years but the Bush years have seen a marked cooling in realtions.

                                3. Canada has a history of being more cautious and I suspect Kerry's message of greater caution and prudence in military matters resonated. Canadians seem to be great believers in multi-lateralism.



                                This may signal that Kerry is back in the race. .. . If Homeland Security is Bush's strength . .. ouch. It was no knockout, but it was Kerry on points by a modest but clear margin.

                                Anyone that can't see that must be either

                                a) blind or
                                b) a supporter of Bush's Iraq policy
                                You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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