EU's "Exit from History" - a new meaning to the term "Old Europe"

[Heresson]

Surely it is a noble book indeed, if I can judge it on the title..
I can accept that some Armenian partisants may have done some wrong to local Turks or Kurds, especially after earlier massacres on Armenians. But the final result of all the turmoil was that
on all territory that Turks managed to keep, Armenians disappeared The only reason that the shred of Armenia survived was that the Turks didn't manage to conquer it.
Also, Syrian Christians were treaten the same. And You can not accuse them of any partisant activity or collaborating with Russians.
Not to mention that the persecutions and massacres hit Armenians everywhere in the entire Ottoman Empire.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by alva

Why should they?

Why shouldn't they?

Because they don't want to?

Why should they have to fit in?

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Because they don't want to?

Why should they have to fit in?

If they don't want to fit in, they should stay out. As simple as that.

europe isnt the most powerfull area in the world for 4 centuries. they were from about 1750`s till WW1 WW2ish.

Hm... 1750's You say?
The last time Europe was really threatened militarily by some other region was Vienna...
and that was much earlier, and European navy was already stronger before.
Middle East was back then already behind Europe in other aspects back then I believe.

The stupid europeans will never accept muslims like me and i know it as i live in the netherlands.

First of all, if Europeans annoy You that much that You have to offend them, leave them.
Secondly: what is that the Europeans don't want to accept in You as a Muslim exactly?

3: people will just fade away and has immigration drops(it is doing that here) the middle east will get more powerfull.

That's a wishful thinking of Yours.
Middle East economy, except for Turkey and Israel, consists mostly on exporting oil and importing tourists.
And this oil heaven will end in a few decades.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Because they don't want to?

Why should they have to fit in?

It falls upon immigrants to assimilate into the nation's society, not the other way around.

[tomcat ha]

i never said that the middle easy will gain more power than europe just that the middle east will get more power.

The people of the country in which the immigrants have went to have to adapt aswell. Currently they want them to be assimilated. the only thing they want to have is the food and not that not even always.

The ottoman empire was still very strong around 1700.
Same for the persian empire to the right of it.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by tomcat ha
i never said that the middle easy will gain more power than europe just that the middle east will get more power.

Still, I see no reason how ME could become more important with decline of Europe.

The people of the country in which the immigrants have went to have to adapt aswell.

Not at all. If You don't like it, there are many others that will eagerly come on your place.

Currently they want them to be assimilated. the only thing they want to have is the food and not that not even always.

So You're complaining, because You want food, and the state doesn't give it to You?

The ottoman empire was still very strong around 1700.
Same for the persian empire to the right of it.

ha, 1699 was Karlowice treaty...
Ottoman Empire lost a war against completely anarchic at the time Poland, which had problems with maintaining 20 000 army...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Heresson
If they don't want to fit in, they should stay out. As simple as that.

"We believe in liberty, and others are at liberty to stay away from us!" said the New England Puritans about liberty and their theocratic state.

[Heresson]

Europe is not theocratic at all...
If You apply for a job, You can take it or not take it, but if You're not a world class specialist, You can't expect the job to adapt to your personal needs

[tomcat ha]

no no no the people here just want the food the other cultures have the rest they do not want to have.

they lost hungary cause of the poles attacking then from behind while they were under protection by the ottoman empire and the tartar leader who was supposed to guard the rear left.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by tomcat ha
no no no the people here just want the food the other cultures have the rest they do not want to have.

they lost hungary cause of the poles attacking then from behind while they were under protection by the ottoman empire and the tartar leader who was supposed to guard the rear left.

Who was under protection of the Ottoman Empire? Poland?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Heresson
Europe is not theocratic at all...

Not my point. However, it's not in any way a doctrine of liberty to say "they have the freedom to stay away".

If You apply for a job, You can take it or not take it, but if You're not a world class specialist, You can't expect the job to adapt to your personal needs

If they have the money to pay for transport to the country, and to pay for food and lodging, why shouldn't you let them in?

[Heresson]

Not my point. However, it's not in any way a doctrine of liberty to say "they have the freedom to stay away".

And it's fine that way.
Immigrants don't like the liberty we have - we'll let immigrants which will appreciate that.

If they have the money to pay for transport to the country, and to pay for food and lodging, why shouldn't you let them in?

If they have no respect for local law or tradition, they should not be let in and economic aspect is irrelevant.

[Kuciwalker]

Of course they have to respect local law. Why should they have to respect your "society" though?

[Heresson]

because they are not only becoming a part of the state, but also a part of the society

[joncha]

I agree with 100% of what KUCITEXASRANGER has said in this thread.

Should I be afraid, or should he?