EU's "Exit from History" - a new meaning to the term "Old Europe"

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Europe is now seeing the conseuquence of it's abandoning it's Christian Roots. As Europe abandons the religiion that defined it for centuries, so too dies it's accompanying values. The old Christian values cherishing the family fades, it is repleased with an atheistic materialism where everything becomes centered on getting the most for themselves. Why have a child if it is such a painful economic cost? Thus Europe indeeds exits from history, unless it is to re-emerge under the leadership of groups which immigrate to Europe and eventually take over with their culture.

Codswallop. It isn't Christianity that is to blame, it is the trampling nature of capitalism, and how it has become prohibitively expensive to raise a family in the west. I look at the prospective cost and feel horrified by the concept...

[St Leo]

Voluntary Human Extinction

[Ted Striker]

Ted Striker

[Heresson]

Mine frogs

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


Codswallop. It isn't Christianity that is to blame, it is the trampling nature of capitalism, and how it has become prohibitively expensive to raise a family in the west. I look at the prospective cost and feel horrified by the concept...

If it was prohibitively expensive why are there so many single teenage mums pushing prams 'round Dartford with about 5 kids in toe and a check from the social?

[Provost Harrison]

This is the irony, they know it is an easy screw out of the state...however those earning an honest living have the difficulty of having the time or money to support children...crazy when you think about it!

[Provost Harrison]

I realised the other night where Dartford reminds me of: Doncaster

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Europe is now seeing the conseuquence of it's abandoning it's Christian Roots. As Europe abandons the religiion that defined it for centuries, so too dies it's accompanying values.

@ abandoning Christian values

[Heresson]

All humanitarism comes from Christian values

[Dinner]

Originally posted by tomcat ha
actually i can speak better dutch than turkish. i have more dutch friends than turkish. the dutch just never say i hate muslims out right but seceretly they are racist.

Till about 1700 the middle east was the most powerfull area in the world. eg: ottoman empire and the persian empire to the right of which i forgot the name.

I read a very interesting book about the differences in standards of living between Europe and the middle east. It seems that around 1300 both areas had near identical standards of living but by 1700 theaverage European had ruoghly 5 times the goods & food that the average middle easterner had. Add on the western technological superiority and you have a compelling case for the west being much stronger then the middle east.

At Lapanto the Italians were out numbered 5 to 1 by the Turks but they still won because they had superior cannons and better designed/built ships. The Turks resorted to buying weapons from the west and hiring navel & warfare experts from the west but the west never used Turkish designed weapons nor Turkish navel/warfare experts. That seems to indicate that the Turks knew they were behind the west technologically and that to compete they needed to relay on western experts.

By 1700 the Spanish had a larger, richer, and more populus empire then the Turks for at least 100 years if not 150 years. The Turks could only hang on by allying themselves to various European powers or by desperately trying to buy weapons from the west. I'd hardly call that the profile of the world's greatest power.

[germanos]

Originally posted by tomcat ha
actually i can speak better dutch than turkish. i have more dutch friends than turkish. the dutch just never say i hate muslims out right but seceretly they are racist.

Interesting

If you really feel this way, I guess there is nothing I can do to persuade you that your statement is pure bigotry.

[tomcat ha]

just those things i occaisonally hear: always the marrocans or turks steal etc.

[Heresson]

Because the crime factor IS higher ammongst them
C-mon, Germans are being racist about Polish car thefts, but it's not that there weren't many Polish car stealers indeed once
If You are angry, blaim the Maroccans and or Turks who actually do commit crimes too

[tomcat ha]

there is a higher percentage of turks or marrocans who commit crimes but too much is blamed on them. They also do not look at the cause of the higher crime percentage.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by tomcat ha
The people of the country in which the immigrants have went to have to adapt aswell. Currently they want them to be assimilated. the only thing they want to have is the food and not that not even always.

No, they don't. If you move from one place to a new one (logically a superior place or why move?) then you must "do as the Romans do". If you don't then they are free to ask you to leave if they wish. Since their culture has produced a superior standard of living and since you have acknowedlged this superiority (other wise you wouldn't have left one place to go to another) then why should they adopt elements of a inferior culture (judging by standards of living. True, some locals may admire parts of the other culture and wish to adopt those parts but it is up to you to convince them of that and they are never required to do it. One hint is that calling them stupid or racist doesn't help build up that admiration.

[/QUOTE]
The ottoman empire was still very strong around 1700.
Same for the persian empire to the right of it. [/QUOTE]

It was strong but relatively it was weak when compared to Spain, France, or England. The Persians were even worse off then the Turks and survived simply because none of the European powers felt there was much worth conquoring there; not that that stopped Russia and Britain from dividing the Persian Empire into two defacto protectorites with Shah being dictated to from London and Moscow.