Turkey tries everything to stay out of the EU

[DinoDoc]

Yes. The article said that the law could effect the non-existent chances that Turkey would be admitted to the EU.

[BeBMan]

"According to our correspondent, it seems pretty clear from his more informal comments and demeanour that Mr Verheugen wants to give Turkey the kind of report which would boost its membership hopes. "

But maybe it is just an evil EU tactic to fool those poor Turks

[MarkG]

The adultery law is part of a package of sweeping changes to the penal code, which include the abolition of torture

torture was allowed by law before this?

[kronic]

Can't Greece just veto Turkey's membership?

Europe, the club of atheists

[Gangerolf]

Copycat thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121356

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Maybe they've finally learned you aren't going to let them in?

Doubtful, since we haven't decided yet.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by alva
As I have said before, no new members for at least 10 years.

Although having said that, it's a great bargaining tool for removing nasty practices, ie. ban torture and we'll let you in. It's also a way of having an Atheist union and doing a proper seperation of church and state

[Buck Birdseed]

Surely Turkey's church is more separated from the state than, say, Greece's, Poland's or Ireland's?

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by VetLegion

They tried this before, when they tried to legalise headscarf on the grounds that it was a human rights issue, and the whole thing blew back on them and they had to give up.

Because of military pressure or because of popular pressure?

Well in this case, popular pressure and institutional resistance. The headscarf issue occupied the agenda for a long time and it was not because the government wanted to directly pass a law legalising it but it played out as a larger debate. It revolved around the complaints of turban wearers that they can't wear it at the university campuses. A high point was their application to the European Court and the court's rejection of their claim. The army was not the center of this debate.

I think Turkey will stop being percieved as a threat by some in EU when her population stops growing. For many it's easier to accept that muslims live next to you if it doesn't seem likely that they will one day be a majority.

The catch here is, population increase slows down as the average income rises, as it has in Europe and even in Turkey over the past 20 years. From this perspective, EU membership would in fact help accelerate the slowdown of population increase. But sure, this would not convert a EuroTurkoskeptic.

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Actually that IS the most important thing - NOT adultery or headscarves - but the free play of democracy, pressure groups, open debate, etc. Thats what makes me (and some others here in the US) so hopeful about Turkey, both in itself and as a model for the muslim world. There are however some here, and many in Europe, who put secularism above democracy, a viewpoint that plays out on many issues.

In addition, the prospect of Turkey's membership brought another dimension to the issue of secularism in Europe. The problem for many conservatives in Europe with Turkey is it's both Muslim and secular, which is the worst of both worlds for a Christian Democrat .

[Chemical Ollie]

In my opinion, Turkey has the same chance of becoming a full EU member within 10 years as Cuba has the chance of becoming a full US state within the same time.

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by MarkG

The adultery law is part of a package of sweeping changes to the penal code, which include the abolition of torture

torture was allowed by law before this?

Well, what the proposed changes in penal code is about is strengthening laws and legal punishment against acts of torture. BBC is meticulous about the details as usual.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by kronic
Can't Greece just veto Turkey's membership?

we're finally playing smart regarding Turkey in EU, and have long stopped being EU's excuse to keep Turkey out. We're now supporting Turkey's road to EU and let the dirty job to others (French, etc)

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Ancyrean

The catch here is, population increase slows down as the average income rises, as it has in Europe and even in Turkey over the past 20 years. From this perspective, EU membership would in fact help accelerate the slowdown of population increase.

Yes. Turkey's population is still growing faster than that of any other country in Europe. It seems that demographic transition is not over in Turkey yet.

I would sure like to know some projections, since the ones I heard don't mention that the trend is a slowdown. In fact, I've heard it said that Kurdish population alone is expected to rise sharply...

[Combat Ingrid]

The fertility levels in Turkey (2.5) are just slightly over the replacement levels (2.1). The population is still growing rapidly because the people who were born in previous decades when fertility rates were much higher are still around. I think demographers call it 'population momentum'.

The same is going on in many other muslim states close to Europe. Fertility rates have dropped sharply, but most people there are still young and produce new people instead of dying of old age. However, in a few decades from now, they will probably also start aging like us Euros