Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Turkey tries everything to stay out of the EU

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Turkey tries everything to stay out of the EU

    .....it seems.

    I was leaning towards a Turkish membership, but they shouldn't expect to have much chances when they continue with stunts like this:

    EU irked by Turkish adultery law

    Guenter Verheugen stressed the need for reforms during his visit
    Turkey's plans to make adultery a crime could affect its chances of joining the European Union, EU enlargement commissioner Guenter Verheugen says.

    The bill, to be presented to parliament next week, may be seen as Islamic law entering Turkish law, he warned.

    Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a devout Muslim, says the bill will help protect women from deception.

    An EU report due out in October will assess Turkey's progress towards meeting EU membership criteria.

    The adultery law is part of a package of sweeping changes to the penal code, which include the abolition of torture and the expansion of individual liberties. The changes are an effort to bring Turkey's legal code into line with European human rights legislation.

    Bad impression

    Mr Verheugen, who has spent the last few days touring Turkey, expressed his concerns in an interview with the Turkish Vatan newspaper.

    "If Turkey tries to include crimes that are not in other countries' laws in its penal code, European Union countries could interpret this as Islamic law entering Turkish law," he told the paper.

    He added that he was not "defending adultery", but said "Turkey should not give the impression... that it is introducing Islamic elements into its legal system while engaged in a great project such as the EU".


    We think that Turkey should join the EU, but not really accepting ... every aspect of European society at present
    Temel Karamollaoglu,
    Islamist Saadet party
    Women's groups and liberal commentators have condemned the bill, saying it would be used against women and pushes the secular Muslim state closer to an Islamic legal model.

    But the main opposition party says it will not challenge it, provided men face the same penalties as women.

    The BBC's Virginia Gidley-Kitchin says adultery used to be illegal in Turkey until 1996, when the Constitutional Court struck the law down because it penalised women more than men.

    Men were deemed to have been adulterous if they were involved in a long-term affair; but women could be charged if they were unfaithful only once.

    Temel Karamollaoglu, a member of the Islamist Saadet party - which is more conservative than Mr Erdogan's governing AKP - says the law is necessary to protect the family and the society.

    "At present adultery is accepted as a cause for divorce, and it is not accepted in society," he told the BBC. "The point is whether it should be punishable or not.

    "We think that Turkey should join the EU, but not really accepting every detail in the moral value, not every aspect of European society at present. Countries may have different cultures. I accept European Union as a multi-cultural, multi-religious society."

    Positive

    Women's groups plan to demonstrate against the bill when it is presented to parliament on 14 September.

    Canan Arin, of the Women's Rights Centre at the Istanbul Bar Association, says it is a violation of the constitution protecting individual's privacy.

    "Everyone has the right to demand respect for his private and family life," she said. Ms Arin fears the bill will work against women, as traditional women are reluctant to complain about their husbands.

    "If they bring it, it will provoke honour killings more than ever," she said.

    The BBC's Jonny Dymond in Istanbul says Mr Verheugen has given the impression of enjoying his visit but has stressed that it is the implementation of reforms that he is most interested in.

    He stressed that the use of torture must be punished and he called for further cultural freedoms for Turkey's large Kurdish community.

    According to our correspondent, it seems pretty clear from his more informal comments and demeanour that Mr Verheugen wants to give Turkey the kind of report which would boost its membership hopes.
    Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3641026.stm
    Blah

  • #2
    dumbass party . Let's hope that the country I like so much comes to it's senses.
    urgh.NSFW

    Comment


    • #3
      this thread is awesome
      In da butt.
      "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
      THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
      "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks

        Azazel: yes, I like Turkey as well. Let's hope this is not the last word about the issue.
        Blah

        Comment


        • #5
          The adultery issue is the number one story that everybody's talking about in Turkey and I can tell you there's quite an anger going in the direction of the government.

          It's quite stupid on the part of the government to create a mess like this. It's also typical that they want to wrap the issue in a rheoric of equality. They tried this before, when they tried to legalise headscarf on the grounds that it was a human rights issue, and the whole thing blew back on them and they had to give up.

          And now the adultery sh!t. The problem with these people is that they still have some some spark of extreme conservatism in them. Paradoxically, they are also the government that produced more human rights and democracy reforms in recent histroy of the country (turning the notoriously meticulous European Commission speechless) but still stunts like this apparently have to come up.

          I appreciate all the myriad reforms they did, but apparently we'll have to live with such antics. As another example, did you know that wives of many ministers and parlamentarians wear headscarves (inculding the prime minister) and therefore constantly excluded from state protocol? When there's a national reception or something, they (insistently) arrive single because the dress code of the occasion doesn't allow for headscarves. (protocol: )

          If they force the issue, it's still a long road for them, the President is almost sure to veto the bill, and if they push it again the constitutional court will surely step in. But hey, after all, isn't this the kind of stuff you'd want to see in a muslim country (constitutional battles, media pressure, civil rights groups pressure etc)?
          "Common sense is as rare as genius" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

          Comment


          • #6
            As I have said before, no new members for at least 10 years.
            Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
            Then why call him God? - Epicurus

            Comment


            • #7
              I demand, that Turkey joins the EU immediately!

              And then, after we got a common border, we culture-flip Iraq!

              Comment


              • #8
                They tried this before, when they tried to legalise headscarf on the grounds that it was a human rights issue, and the whole thing blew back on them and they had to give up.


                Because of military pressure or because of popular pressure?

                One thing that utterly shocks me (and as one of the internet generation, I am not easily shocked ) are the "honour killings" of women. I am of the opinion that such villages where this "tradition" is nurtured should be mercilessly buldozed by the army and their inhabitants punished. The bastards who killed their female relative are to be hanged by the balls in a public sqare. To serve as example to the other wannabe sister-killers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think Turkey will stop being percieved as a threat by some in EU when her population stops growing. For many it's easier to accept that muslims live next to you if it doesn't seem likely that they will one day be a majority.

                  As I have said before, no new members for at least 10 years.


                  Can Croatia be an exception?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ancyrean
                    If they force the issue, it's still a long road for them, the President is almost sure to veto the bill, and if they push it again the constitutional court will surely step in. But hey, after all, isn't this the kind of stuff you'd want to see in a muslim country (constitutional battles, media pressure, civil rights groups pressure etc)?
                    I don't know if I am the only one, but I regard: constitutional court, president, media people and civil rights groups as cosmetics. These are easily the most progressivist parts of the society (foreign agents ), but constitute a tiny portion of it.

                    I'd like to hear that the run-of-the-mill Joe Sultan on the street opposes this bill (and others such).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by alva
                      As I have said before, no new members for at least 10 years.
                      Even if they'd start the negotiations today it would still take years before they become a full member.
                      Blah

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        arrive single because the dress code of the occasion doesn't allow for headscarves.


                        urgh.NSFW

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe they've finally learned you aren't going to let them in?
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You haven't read the article, hm?
                            Blah

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ancyrean
                              . But hey, after all, isn't this the kind of stuff you'd want to see in a muslim country (constitutional battles, media pressure, civil rights groups pressure etc)?

                              Actually that IS the most important thing - NOT adultery or headscarves - but the free play of democracy, pressure groups, open debate, etc. Thats what makes me (and some others here in the US) so hopeful about Turkey, both in itself and as a model for the muslim world. There are however some here, and many in Europe, who put secularism above democracy, a viewpoint that plays out on many issues.
                              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X