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Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Is there a woman hidden under that ton of makeup? Could as well be a dummy.
This only leads me to conclude that Sir Ralph is gay.We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln
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Here's some extra info on what the issue of criminalisation of adultery is presented by the government in Turkey:
Adultery here is defined as to exclude pre-marital sex, but is exclusively about a married person. Accordingly, it's not the person who committed adultery per se that will be prosecuted but rather it will be "adultery that seriously hurts/affects the dignity/standing of the other spouse and their children" that will be the subject of the law. And the law will kick in only when a spouse files an official complaint (meaning, the state will not have the liberty to crack down on adulterous persons).
Much open to wide interpretation as this clause is, it is apparently inspired by widespread prostitution in the eastern Black sea region of Turkey where husbands routinely visit Russian/Ukrainian/Moldovan/etc prostitutes that had been pouring in after the fall of the Soviet Union. Accordingly, many wives who know what's going on are often helpless and humiliated both personally and in society.
A spouse can already file for divorce and demand regular monetary compensation if he/she discovers the infidelity of the spouse, but a legal deterrent with a possible jail sentence in connection with the spouse's complaint would be in better order, the reasoning goes, to beter protect the institution of family. They say this new law "is about protecting women vulnerable as such" and "about changing the legal status quo which often works more in cases of female infidelity than male".
For me, the above logic is way too twisted to hold water . What's ironic is when adultery was decriminalised officially in 1997 (as the law for it was almost never applied), it happened all quietly and nobody ever invoked the integrity of the family and protection of women blah blah against it at all."Common sense is as rare as genius" - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Heresson
The case was backed offQUOTE]
Well, they removed the adultery clause from the proposed changes in penal code and approved 343 proposals out of a package of 345. The remaining two were about implementation of the changes and are essential for the package to go in effect. But instead of going ahead with them, they suddenly brought back the adultery clause in a somewhat watered down version with different wording ("sexual infidelity" instead of adultery ).
The opposition and a majority of the press now accuse them of trying to trick the parliament as well as Europe by first withdrawing the adultery issue thereby easing internal and EU pressure and then stalling till the end of this year when the EU is expected to give a date for negotiations with Turkey. They would then be free to reintroduce, the suspicion goes, the adultery issue before finalising the reform package without fear of EU reaction now that they will have got the date.
They have already withdrawn this second proposal too saying that they have no ulterior motives but they just want to combine the implementation part with the passing of other reforms in criminal procedure. In practice they froze the package and therefore still have the possibility of reintroducing new stints."Common sense is as rare as genius" - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Originally posted by Heresson
but now Erdogan stated that this is Turkey, and only Turks have right to decide about themselves
He's going to Brussels on 22nd to "explain" his government's attitude to EU people and now plays down any talk of a rift with the EU.
I'm quite dismayed by the whole episode which is politically so unwise and so unnecessary, polarising the country and alienating it in the EU. I really wonder if the EU will be able to change his mind on this issue."Common sense is as rare as genius" - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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btw, if You're from Indonesia, I've read an article about Indonesia recently. How good does it handle with islamic problems and democracy and stuff... And there were such a nice photos of miss Megawati Sukarnoputri and mister Bambang or whatever... And they have such nice names...
Megawati is like a megavatt... Like a great bulb of light shining through the darkness.... She even reminds a frog a bit! And Bambang... well, like Bambam from Flinstones....
(on the photo, He and his followers were happily raising fists on somekind of meeting, perhaps that's why I got this idea)
I liked it all so much I almost posted a thread about Indonesia....
Tell us something about your country!"I realise I hold the key to freedom,
I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
Middle East!
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Originally posted by Ancyrean
After all these antics, the EU made quite public warnings as to the incompatibility of criminalisation of adultery with EU values and warned that this would jeopardise the whole membership issue of Turkey. He already took considerable flak at home on the issue and I guess this stern EU reaction was what pissed Erdogan off prompting him to launch himself into the we-decide-for-ourselves outburst.
I'm a strong supporter of an empowered EU, but there are some matters that are to be left in the hands of Member-States. I mean: we have countries where abortion is banned. As much as I disagree with these countries, it's their call to lift the ban or not. Just like as much as I disagree with the criminalisation of adultery, it's typically the kind of issue where it's Turkey's call, not the EU's."I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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Originally posted by Heresson
btw, if You're from Indonesia, I've read an article about Indonesia recently. How good does it handle with islamic problems and democracy and stuff... And there were such a nice photos of miss Megawati Sukarnoputri and mister Bambang or whatever... And they have such nice names...
Megawati is like a megavatt... Like a great bulb of light shining through the darkness.... She even reminds a frog a bit! And Bambang... well, like Bambam from Flinstones....
(on the photo, He and his followers were happily raising fists on somekind of meeting, perhaps that's why I got this idea)
I liked it all so much I almost posted a thread about Indonesia....
Tell us something about your country!
On a lighter note, my quite fair complexion creates a huge impression when girls here learn I myself am a Muslim Not that they wouldn't hang out with non-muslims but it certainly draws the attention positively to me since they are not used to see a Muslim buleh (white man) and I surely am not comlplaining about that . And the girls here, I must tell you, are quite relaxed in general
On the other hand, many people here think Turks are the same with Arabs. It comes quite a surprise to many people that we are a different people with a completely different language and history. That's understandable for me, thinking about how much an average person in Turkey knows the difference between peoples of this corner of the world.
However, owing to my Turkish background (or call it bias if you will ) and with my high awareness of (or prejudice for, depending on where you stand) the need for secularity in a Muslim society, I'm quietly worried about the high profile that religion has in public life as well as politics here (as I preceive it). There are large "Islamic Societies" here, for example, with membership numbers running in 60 million or 40 million. These declare largely social and charity agendas. But leaders of such societies for example, freely offered their support to the highest bidders among presidential candidates. How much they are effective in securing the following of their members in voting for a certain candidate is debatable, but it still doesn't inspire me when they go out on sale like that.
Similarly, many solemn ceremonies like opening of the parliament and so on start with a religious ceremony, complete with verses from Quran and colective prayers for succes, people greeting each other as well as audiences with Islamic greetings, which is for my secular sense rather puzzling.
I mean, of course every country is different and of course everybody has its own circumstance and culture and I don't mean to say the system in Turkey should be copied everywhere in the Muslim world, which would be impossible. It's just that I'm sometimes worried that with no institutional principles to draw a line, 20-30 years down the road religion might be a stronger factor in many aspects of politics and social life here than is good for the country."Common sense is as rare as genius" - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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