The Chechen Dilemma

[Serb]

1) Kill the terrorists, destroy their camps and bases.
Then:
2) The same what was done with Europe after WW2- reconstruction and re-education of coutries which terrorists considered their home sweet home and where they drafted new fighters.
I see no other way to finish this new world war.

[Ned]

Serb, on al Qaeda and Saddam. Yes there were links between Saddam and al Qaeda, many, and over a number of years. There is just no hard proof that Saddam was linked in an operational sense to 9/11 -- no proof because the Czech report of Saddam's intelligence meeting with Atta in Praque was not confirmed. However, the people who say there is proof that such a meeting did not happen because Atta's cell phone was used in Florida at the same time that Atta was supposed to be in Prague have a real "leap of faith" problem.

Regardless of the historical links, there is no doubt that al-Zarqawi, who fought with Osama in Afghanistan, is leading the resistance in Fallujah. He has to be destroyed or else. We may be able to handle Iraq by ourselves, but any help would be welcome.

And, of course you helped with Afghanistan. Thanks.

[Ned]

WTF?

"MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that mid-level officials in the U.S. government were undermining his country's war on terrorism by supporting Chechen separatists, whom he compared to al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

Putin's charge, made in a meeting with a group of western foreign policy experts, came just days after hundreds of people, mostly children, died in the bloody end to the Beslan siege.

In the wide-ranging meeting which lasted almost four hours, Putin said he likes President Bush, calling him a friendly, decent, predictable person.

But Putin said each time Russia complained to the Bush administration about meetings held between U.S. officials and Chechen separatist representatives, the U.S. response has been "we'll get back to you" or "we reserve the right to talk with anyone we want."

Putin blamed what he called a "Cold War mentality" on the part of some U.S. officials, but likened their demands that Russia negotiate with the Chechen separatists to the U.S. talking to al Qaeda.

These are not "freedom fighters," Putin said. "Would you talk with Osama Bin Laden?" he asked.

Putin said the Chechen separatists are trying to ignite ethnic tensions in the former Soviet Union and it could have severe repercussions.

"Osama Bin Laden attacked the United States saying he was doing it because of policies in the Middle East," Putin said. "Do you call him a freedom fighter?"

Putin's comments came a few weeks after the U.S. granted asylum to Ilias Akhmadov, the "foreign minister" of the Chechen separatist movement.

Asked about the U.S. presidential race, Putin was complimentary of President George W. Bush, saying he likes him. He is a friendly, decent, predictable person, but "it is not about personalities," Putin said."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/07/putin.us/index.html

[Serb]

Ned,
honestly, while I as most of Russians supported your action against the Taliban, because I believe it was a very good and just move- such regime as Taliban was created by terrorists and for terrorists, it was a true terrorist and religious extremists paradise, which should have been destroyed, I think your invasion in Iraq was a big mistake. I don't think Saddam allowed religious exteremists from al Qaeda to esteblish a single base on Iraqi soil. No doubt that he was an evil dictator, but from I heard he never liked AQ and it was a mutual feeling. Now of course AQ used the situation and send their fighters and recruiting officers in Iraq.

Anyhow, Russia (and many others) didn't agree about your decision towards Iraq, but I guess it doesn't mean we aren't allies in war against terror. We have to be allies after what happened in our countries, those f*ckers simply leave us no choice.

[Serb]

And what's so amazing Ned?
It's not the first time when terrorists who commited bloody terrorist acts against Russia are being called freedom fighters and granted asylum in the West.

Imagine Russia granting asylum to some f*cks from ObL team, how would you react?

It's the policy of double standards.

[Serb]

And from your article Ned:
"Putin also defended his government's decision to storm the school and said the hostage holders had begun shooting children out of boredom. "

WTF?
There was no decision about storm the building. Terrorists exploded two bombs (that's the reason for most of the casualties. You can't explode two bombs in small sport hall where over one thousand people being held and expect few casualties among the hostages) and started to shot escaping hostages at their backs. What the hell spetsnaz should do in such circumstances? Just watch? They returned fire to cover escaping children and entered the building to save wounded.
It's a perfect example of your media aproach- another LIE.
Nothing changes, unforunately.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Serb
2) The same what was done with Europe after WW2- reconstruction and re-education of coutries which terrorists considered their home sweet home and where they drafted new fighters.
I see no other way to finish this new world war.

War on terrorism is a reactionary war. We need proactive war. War on religious extremism.

[Serb]

Religious extremism borns terrorism. Terrorism is their way of fighting. So if its called war on terrorism, its also means war on religious extremism, I hope. Otherwise war on terrorism means no sense, since terrorism is a mean and religious extremism is a cause.

[Ned]

Serb, Saddam was training al Qaeda from the mid '90s and was providing other kinds of support as well. Our 9/11 Commission report has lots of details.

As to the asylum, as best as I can tell, some immigration court in Kerry's home state of Massachusettes granted the terrorist leader asylum, and the US State Dept. dropped their appeal, for some God awful reason. I'll bet Bush was never consulted on this one, which is why Putin said "mid-level officials" when he leveled his criticism.

[Kidlicious]

Do you think radical Islam should be allowed in Afganistan, now that the terrrorists have been chased out of there?

[Az]

Originally posted by Serb
Religious extremism borns terrorism. Terrorism is their way of fighting. So if its called war on terrorism, its also means war on religious extremism, I hope. Otherwise war on terrorism means no sense, since terrorism is a mean and religious extremism is a cause.

And, you know what can definetly kill religious extremism?

killing religion.

[Ned]

No, Azazel. One fights religious extremism with democracy. Look at what is happening in Iran, for example.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ned
Serb, Saddam was training al Qaeda from the mid '90s and was providing other kinds of support as well. Our 9/11 Commission report has lots of details.

If it's true and your Commission really can prove it, why it doesn't share this information with Russians and everyone else?
Why we never hear about al Qaeda bases in Iraq? If you have info share with us, but we need a strong evidences, since before the Desert Storm II, your leadership was absolutely sure that Iraq posess WMD, and after invasion you find nothing.
If it's really true I bet Russia, Germany and France will change their attitute toward invasion to Iraq imidiently.

As to the asylum, as best as I can tell, some immigration court in Kerry's home state of Massachusettes granted the terrorist leader asylum, and the US State Dept. dropped their appeal, for some God awful reason. I'll bet Bush was never consulted on this one, which is why Putin said "mid-level officials" when he leveled his criticism.

Whatever, I don't know who in US makes desicion about granting of asylium, it is not important for me or our leadership. The fact remains- some terrorists hide in US, UK, Denmark, Germany and other European countries. And I believe if Russia acted in the same way, you would call us terrorist supporters and part of the axis of evil, and would be right, of course. Russia never gave shelter to the members of ObL team of international motherf*ckers who were wanted in US for their crimes (and in fact, iirc, but I may be wrong, we extradicted to you some AQ members you wanted in US). Why do you act differently if we are allies in war on terror?

[atomant]

September 6, 2004: The death toll in North Ossetia looks like it will reach 500, with 340 known dead and 180 missing. The Chechen rebels must be aware by now that their habit of taking large numbers of hostages. The Chechens, especially the faction led by Shamil Basaev, have been doing this since 1995 (and 1996 and 2002). It never works. The most the Chechens have ever gotten out of it is free passage for the hostage takers. The huge loss of life in North Ossetia brought condemnation even from the normally supportive Arab press. What the world found particularly horrendous was the killing of so many children. For two centuries, the Chechens have tried to defeat the Russians by being more savage. It never worked then, and it's not going to work this time either.

(taken from www.strategypage.com)

[Ned]

Serb, the information is in the public domain. The 9/11 commission report is published and summaries have been in the press for weeks. No one is hiding anything except, perhaps, media who do not report what the commission found for political reasons.