Way to go Spain - aka The results of giving in to terrorist demands

[Ned]

Ditto, of course, the DPRK?

[chequita guevara]

Absolutely.

[Az]

lol, pwnzed.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Just my opinion that France hasn't gotte over their fall from a world power, a first rate world mover one anyways. They want the position the US has in the Western world now, the one they held for centuries before. The cultural icon of the civilization. For that reason they always have to SOUND different from us, even if they actually are not.

Errr... France still has lots of interests to defend. You really think that professional diplomats and policymakers waste time with psychological complexes? That Realpolitik can be psychanalyzed like a human being?

Oh and BTW, the French people is indeed a lot different than the American one. Not perfect, but overall much less retarded.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Absolutely.

Well, bully for you. For once (or is this, remarkably, twice) thumbs up!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Which French? Remember, when we landed in Africa in 1943, the French open fire on us. They certainly do not treat us like liberators or as allies.

Oh, you mean the troops that were under the direct orders of Vichy France, and thus under the inderect orders of Germany?

Ditto much of France itself in 1944. The French did not appear to be very happy to see us despite the newsreel footage we often see from Normandy. They rather appear to be behaving as if we conquered France rather than liberated it.

Watch some footage from Paris' liberation. What you are saying is incredibly false. The only places that weren't overjoyed were the ones the allies razed to the ground, i.e some cities in Normandy.

[Spiffor]

To reply to the usual question: "where is the outrage?", here's a list of people and organizations who call for the immediate liberation of the two French journalists:

- The whole French political class (duh)
- The French Muslim community, strongly opposed to the headscarf ban
- French Islamist, and outspoken headscarf-ban opponent Tariq Ramadan
- Yassir Arafat
- Arabic League's secretary Amr Moussa
- The "Communauté des Oulémas" (no idea of how it's called in English), the main Sunni organization.
- Jordan's main Islamist party
- The Union of Arabic Journalists and the Syndicate of Egyptian Journalists
- Al Jazeera

Also, the Muslim Brotherhood recuses the link between the headscarf ban and this terror action.

The only Arabic political figure who rings a different bell is Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, who says it proves a country can't be neutral in Iraq, and France has to become militarily involved.

[Menlas]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Of course there was a little more than that, nice try though. Luckly we have Spiffor here to forstall any steriotypes about the common sence of Frenchmen origninating with you.

Funny, coming from a guy whose main "argument" against the French is basically : "France has been much harsher against America than America against France". Without backing it with any fact, of course.

Wow, common sense indeed

[Nubclear]

Well, for one, the French did steal "red, white, and blue" from the Americans.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Well, for one, the French did steal "red, white, and blue" from the Americans.

How dare you!

We stole it from the Swedish and Danish flags, like everybody else!

[Harovan]

The Russians stole it too. Bastards.

EDIT: Before I forget it: The Belgians clearly stole from us. But they mixed up the order. They can't even steal properly, where has this world come to...

[Ned]

Spiffor, all the French government has done is ask that the hostages be released. They have not offered to rescind the headscarf ban, which is a good thing from the point of view of standing up to the terrorists. But it is a bad thing from the point of view of Muslims.

I am clearly of two minds here. However, I wish France the best and I hope the two Frenchmen are rescued or released.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
But it is a bad thing from the point of view of Muslims.

Well, we are being massively supported by Muslim organizations. That's because they're pragmatic: they know this kind of terrorist actions can only undermine the attempts of our Muslims (and of our non-Muslims too) who are opposed to this law.

The French Muslims are mightily embarassed right now. They planned a big demo on thursday, the long-planned date at which the law will be applied. With the terorrists trying to pressure us, our Muslims have now trouble really going to this long-planned demo, because they don't want to look they're in bed with the terrorists.

Our Muslim organizations have their flaws, but they understand we are a democracy, and policy changes with votes and with communication, not with terror.

[Ned]

Yeah, Spiffor, I have the same conflict as they do. I support lifting the ban, but also do not want to cave into the terroists' demands.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Yeah, Spiffor, I have the same conflict as they do. I support lifting the ban, but also do not want to cave into the terroists' demands.

The best way is not to change your minds or your ways then. As a foreigner, there is very little you can do about the headscarf ban (just like I can do very little about American policies that displease me, like gun rights for example). However, what you are doing is the good, democratic thing to do: you discuss about it, you share your point of view.

French Muslims also use democratic tools to see this law change, and they will have more effectiveness, as they can vote and as they can protest. I hope they'll continue to do what they did until today: to democratically fight a law they oppose. And I hope the terrorists won't change anything about their methods, except maybe modify the timing.