Price Gouging - Fair and balanced, or unfair

[Velociryx]

Rock on, Flubber! Whatcha doing later?

I was thinking of ordering some Pizza and having some peasant deliver it to my door (cos I'm lazy and just feel like some exploitation tonight)....we can plot and scheme maybe?

-=Vel=-

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Can't think of anything that helps your argument.

It wasn't an argument. There was a smiley after it

take that as you will

mingitis!

And there were periods of severe and prolonged unemployment.

Yup.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Innovation can be problematic in the short run if the development of new products does not keep up with the improvements in efficiency.

But makes up for it and much, much more in the long run, so who cares?

In the long run we're all dead - John Maynard Keynes

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Velociryx
And fantastic! So I get to invent stuff in my free time and not give it up to the state. Perfect.

Now what happens when I start using my inventions at work to enhance my productivity.

We're being paid piece work style, so I'm gonna be TONS more productive than the rank and file....and since I get paid by the piece...I get more MONEY!

Now I'm in a position to exploit.....what's the next step?

-=Vel=-

Come see me so I can draft up some contracts-- I'm sure to find some loopholes in any centrally planned system. We'll get those tools into the hands of others in ways thatwill earn you even more profit and which will be more profitable for each worker too.

Kid-- you can drive a truck through most government regulatory schemes-- what makes you think you will get it perfect?

[Imran Siddiqui]

In the long run we're all dead - John Maynard Keynes

That's nice, but I don't give a flip about a random Keynes statement.

If the long term benefits far outweigh the short term cost, then who cares for some short term disruptions? Or are you saying that we should NOT curb carbon emissions in the present because "in the long run we're all dead"? Sounds like Keynes was quite a hedonist then, eh?

[Velociryx]

Flubber, I like it! Sounds like a good topic for discussion over pizza and beer!

Seriously Kid, the system you're proposing is flawed.

I don't mean just little nicks and dings, I mean flawed to the point of not being able to lift itself off the ground.

I'm enjoying the debate, but c'mon guy....how are you gonna stop Flubber from walking into yonder plant and working? Gonna have police checkpoints up?

-=Vel=-

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious





No. You can't go and work in the other factory.

So people aren't ALLOWED to work extra to earn extra??
Fine then I'll use my extra time to mow my neighbor's lawn and tutor his sonm and he will lend me his weedwhacker, give me a couple of bottles of his home-made hootch and his wife will make me dinner.

Stop that transaction why doncha?? Bottom line, you give me the same money for less time and I will find ways to earn more .

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
Meanwhile in a parell capitalist earth, Vel's invention makes him a multumillionaire. so he builds a new house and employes some staff. The widget factory either produces more widgets or produces the smae at less cost and the resources of the society goes on to other things. Its called progress.

Vel didn't actually invent anything, and there are no parallel universes.

Originally posted by Flubber
Kid's system, we might as well scrap all the bulldozer's-- after all a 100 folks with shovels could have full employment doing the same work. Who cares that there is a more efficient way to work?

No stop putting words in my mouth. There are costs and benefits associated with each system, but I'm not the unibomber so just stop.

[Velociryx]

The thing I don't get is this:

What IS it with you people and this paranoid NEED to control?

This burning NEED to stick your noses into everybody else's business and tell us all how to live, where to live, where we can (and cannot) work. What our maximum salary can be, how we can use our own inventions.....

The list goes on and on.

What is it you are so afraid of?

-=Vel=-

[Lawrence of Arabia]

In the long run we're all dead - John Maynard Keynes

in the long run, most of the stuff i came up with will be proven wrong - John Maynard Keynes

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Whaaaaat?

How is consumption going to magically generate tools?

IF and ONLY if the value of what is produced is greater than the value of what is consumed will there be a net gain of anything.

That means, by definition, building in profits at the point of consumption (ie - charging more for the consumables than the value of the labor used to produce them). At this point, per your own d@mned definition, we're exploiting the labor force to drive the machine. Which means that what you're advocating is capitalism-with-jackboots.

-=Vel=-

Thinking isn't labor, but it isn't sitting around with your thumb up your bum either. It's not exploitation.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


in the long run, most of the stuff i came up with will be proven wrong - John Maynard Keynes

In the short run everything you say will be a lie.

[Velociryx]

Thinking isn't labor, but it isn't sitting around with your thumb up your bum either. It's not exploitation.


quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Whaaaaat?

How is consumption going to magically generate tools?

IF and ONLY if the value of what is produced is greater than the value of what is consumed will there be a net gain of anything.

That means, by definition, building in profits at the point of consumption (ie - charging more for the consumables than the value of the labor used to produce them). At this point, per your own d@mned definition, we're exploiting the labor force to drive the machine. Which means that what you're advocating is capitalism-with-jackboots.

-=Vel=-

....?

And this answers the question...how?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


No stop putting words in my mouth. There are costs and benefits associated with each system, but I'm not the unibomber so just stop.

Right-- but the bulldozer was an innovation that was once hard on the planners . Under your system the inventor has no incentive to share it--really no incentive to build it at all-- so guess what it doesn't get built as fast.

So the planned economy has a 100 workers with shovels while the capitalist economy has 1 guy IN a bulldozer and a couple of dozen making bulldozers . The rest of the workforce are probably making other innovations.

Tell you what, my capitalist economy will sell you a bulldozer but that will be a net outflow of capital and since you can't borrow the money, I hope you have the cash--Perhaps you are more efficient in other areas and can actually generate a surplus

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
Kid-- you can drive a truck through most government regulatory schemes-- what makes you think you will get it perfect?

It's not perfect. Maybe it's not closer to perfect than capitalism, but it's fair, it's stable, and it's the only possible system for the future.