Alan Keyes Supports Slavery Reparations (yes, that's Alan Keyes)!

[Az]

As for reparations, I'll just repeat the argument I've had for a long time - descendants of slaves can't double dip. Slavery had the effect of putting them in the United States. Without slavery they probably wouldn't be here. Even though slavery was wrong, they are better off, in most cases, because of it, and I'm not going to give them reparations for slavery as well, which in effect is letting them double dip.

So, if I beat you up (no serious injuries), and give you a couple of thousands of bucks, you have no right to ask for compensation?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

You assume wrong.

Your comment doesn't make any sense to me then.

Originally posted by Last Conformist
As Boshko said, there's a difference 'tween black people as a racial group, and the African-American community. Which do you mean when you speak of "black people in America"?

African Americans

Originally posted by Last Conformist
If the former, well, it's hard to see how you're not saying that race should determine politics. If the later, well, it should not be hard to realize that people might missunderstand and think you mean the former.

It doesn't take long for an black person who recently migrated here to understand the way things are here.

Originally posted by Last Conformist
That would hold if I were arguing with you about conservatives.

We are arguing about conservatives. I'm claiming that liberal blacks have better qualities than conservative blacks.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by David Floyd
So you think that the US should foot the bill for anyone who wants to immigrate to the US? Come on.

Now, don't get me wrong, I believe in open borders, but I don't believe in the goverment paying for immigration, and I only support open borders when we eliminate the so-called "social safety net", which includes programs such as welfare, food stamps, Medicare, Social Security, etc.

I don't even believe that anyone should be able to migrate here, but the people you are reffering to already live here.

Originally posted by David Floyd
But that aside, I don't think you can dispute my point, and in fact, your comment agrees with it - you believe living in the US IS better than living in Africa. Right?

Sure it's better, but I don't understand why you are considering paying their way back to Africa. It's like saying 'if you don't like it go back to Africa. I'll even buy you a ticket.'

[David Floyd]

Azazel,

So, if I beat you up (no serious injuries), and give you a couple of thousands of bucks, you have no right to ask for compensation?

You're comparing apples and oranges. If you beat me up, my grandchildren shouldn't be able to ask your grandchildren for compensation. But even that isn't a fair comparison, so let's just stick to the real topic here.

Kid,

I don't even believe that anyone should be able to migrate here, but the people you are reffering to already live here.

Precisely. They are benefiting from slavery in that they live in the United States as a result.

Sure it's better, but I don't understand why you are considering paying their way back to Africa. It's like saying 'if you don't like it go back to Africa. I'll even buy you a ticket.'

My "boat ride back to Africa" comment isn't meant to be taken seriously, it's simply meant to point out the ridiculousness of the demands of people who want reparations.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Precisely. They are benefiting from slavery in that they live in the United States as a result.

That is just too absurd to comment on.

Originally posted by David Floyd
My "boat ride back to Africa" comment isn't meant to be taken seriously, it's simply meant to point out the ridiculousness of the demands of people who want reparations.

Oh, Ok.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Your comment doesn't make any sense to me then.

Too bad. I've explained it quite clearly, repeatedly.

We are arguing about conservatives. I'm claiming that liberal blacks have better qualities than conservative blacks.

I'm not arguing about conservatives. I'm claiming it's not hard to understand why you get labeled a racist.

[David Floyd]

That is just too absurd to comment on.

Not saying slavery was OK, just that for descendants of slaves, it is better for them to be here than in Africa, and odds are without slavery they wouldn't be here.

[Az]

You're comparing apples and oranges. If you beat me up, my grandchildren shouldn't be able to ask your grandchildren for compensation.

Why not?

But even that isn't a fair comparison, so let's just stick to the real topic here.

Why not?

Look, I am not for the reparations. I think it's not good for anything. However, people that care so much as you do about "rights" and "property", should.

[David Floyd]

Why not?

Don't be stupid. My grandchildren weren't hurt, and your grandchildren didn't hurt anyone.

However, people that care so much as you do about "rights" and "property", should.

Yup, and as soon as you find me a living slave, who was held by a living slaveholder, I'll be all in favor of the slaveholder compensating the slave

[Az]

Don't be stupid. My grandchildren weren't hurt, and your grandchildren didn't hurt anyone.

So you won't bug me on the refugees? thanks.

[David Floyd]

So you won't bug me on the refugees? thanks.

I'll oppose the concept of the State of Israel, I'll oppose the creation of the State of Israel, and I'll certainly oppose wrongs committed by Israelis against Palestinians (and, naturally, vice versa).

It's also, by the way, very possible to find living Palestinians who were harmed by living Israelis.

So if that's where you're trying to go, don't start it.

[Az]

It's also, by the way, very possible to find living Palestinians who were harmed by living Israelis.

So? they're the only ones being compensated?
The whole "they're dead, and thus don't count" makes sense, but it contradicts all other 'libertarian' stuff.

So, if a person takes a loan, should his kids pay it, for example, if he's dead?
Can people harvest organs from the dead?

etc. etc. etc.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Not saying slavery was OK, just that for descendants of slaves, it is better for them to be here than in Africa, and odds are without slavery they wouldn't be here.

That doesn't justify slavery as I'm sure you would agree, so I don't really know what to say.

[David Floyd]

So, if a person takes a loan, should his kids pay it, for example, if he's dead?

No, his estate should.

Can people harvest organs from the dead?

I don't necessarily see a problem with it, I suppose it would depend on who "owns" the corpse, if anyone. Of course, it's a moot point if the corpse is buried in a private cemetary, then the cemetary can ban people from digging on the property without the cemetary's consent.

I wouldn't have a problem with MY organs being harvested, nor do I see why anyone else would, either.

[David Floyd]

That doesn't justify slavery as I'm sure you would agree, so I don't really know what to say.

Of course it doesn't justify slavery - it just sorta makes claims for reparations look silly, in my opinion. Without slavery, they'd be worse off (more than likely), so if their argument is that slavery benefited people, and continues to benefit the descendants of those people, that argument applies equally to descandants of slaves.