Alan Keyes Supports Slavery Reparations (yes, that's Alan Keyes)!

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Kidicious


and? I'm waiting for a connection.

If you cannot work out how saying that all members of a group identified with what is usually taken to be a racial label must hold certain views or be 'fake' can be construed as racist, I'm afraid you have rather more serious problems than can be solved by being infromed on an online forum.

Originally posted by Boshko

What's happening is that people are conflating being a member of the African American (sub) culture and a member of the Black race.

Indeed.

[Dis]

I support reparations.

Only if the plaintiff can prove he has direct lineage to a former slave. And the money should only come from white families that can be proven to have held slaves in their past.

that pretty much means nobody . Because none of this can be proven I bet. I doubt they kept records of the slaves.

[Last Conformist]

So, Diss, you're basically OK with punishing people for what their ancestors did?

[Dis]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
So, Diss, you're basically OK with punishing people for what their ancestors did?

yes. here's why.

wealth is passed down from generation to generation. Wealth does not go away when someone dies.

So decendants of slaveholders benefitted from the wealth their ancestors made off the backs of slaves. they should sacrifice some of that wealth to decendants of slaves. If all of this lineage can be proven of course.

I don't care since my family never owned slaves . I would be real upset if I had to pay reperations when my family had nothing to do with slavery. We immigrated after the civil war. And giving tax breaks is the same thing as taking money away from me. I refuse to pay for reparations. The money should come directly from slaveholding families decendants.

[Patroklos]

Except of course there were few slave holding families that a cent to their name after the war, in the South anyways.

This is just another attempt for short sighted activists to get a quick warm and fuzzy without actually solving anything. This will have two long term NEGATIVE effects.

1.) We will now have a group of people who are currently considered by many in every racial/economic group tp be leaching off the system (whether they are or not) doing it now without paying anything into it for real. Imagine the feild day certain groups would have with that! Not to mention paying taxes is basically your stake in the government. It is why we care when our taxes are waisted. You are marginalizing the black population politically to a great degree.

2.) Wouldn't it be great to re train all buisnesses in America to hire by race once again! The goal is to stop people from thinking in terms of race PERIOD. Sure the short term MIGHT be more jobs for blacks, but then we are training people to be racists. If you are okay with racism, as long as it is not directed towards blacks, raise your hand. Not like buisnesses will replace their white workers, they will replace all their Latino and Asian ones.

Sava, so your saying to be black you have to allign your self with a self defeating and sub-culture devoid of any chance of success? And are you saying that you steriotype all blacks into that? Jesus man, your sick.

[Dis]

Sava is completely off base here.

He is basically saying you have to be some community leader if you are black. Which is bull**** and marginally racist.

Why aren't white people expected support the white community then? We aren't expected to do this. There are many white people who support the black community, and they aren't told they must support the white community.

He just can't accept the fact that a black man is a republican.

[Patroklos]

That is because he says success as the white mans way, and thus all others should condem themselves to failure out of spite.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Dissident


yes. here's why.

wealth is passed down from generation to generation. Wealth does not go away when someone dies.

So decendants of slaveholders benefitted from the wealth their ancestors made off the backs of slaves. they should sacrifice some of that wealth to decendants of slaves. If all of this lineage can be proven of course.

I don't care since my family never owned slaves . I would be real upset if I had to pay reperations when my family had nothing to do with slavery. We immigrated after the civil war. And giving tax breaks is the same thing as taking money away from me. I refuse to pay for reparations. The money should come directly from slaveholding families decendants.

So how would this work for me since it's certainly true that the american side of my family were landowners in virginia and owned slaves, and the british side (who are my antecedents) didnt own slaves but profitted from the work of the slaves in virginia?

[Dis]

you pay half as much

in actuality, I prefer the goverment (legislative/executive) not get involved.

What I'd rather see is a slave ancestor take their former slave owner ancestor to court. It probably wouldn't go far, but it's the only realistic and fair solution. Because obviously some slave owners profitted better than others. And as you said, some were completely broke after the war. It would only make sense to get money directly from the family that held your relatives as a slave- not other slave owning families who had nothing to do with your family. And certainly not families who did not have slave owners in their past.

[Seeker]

Dissident:

I expect my Tory reparations cheque in the mail. If you had family in the US in 1776 you owe me BIG. Think of that money of mine you and your fatcat family have been livin' large on. Payback time.

[Dis]

take me to court then. This is why we have the courts. To settle monetary disputes.

This is what I argue in my post above this one. The legislative and executive branches have no business in this issue. The courts are designed to handle financial disputes. And that includes reparations.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
If you cannot work out how saying that all members of a group identified with what is usually taken to be a racial label must hold certain views or be 'fake' can be construed as racist, I'm afraid you have rather more serious problems than can be solved by being infromed on an online forum.

You're the one with problems working things out. It's up to you to articulate what you are trying to say. Obviously I don't think it's racist. If I were a racist I wouldn't be a communist. If it makes you feel any better I don't really think any conservatives genuinely care about black people, not just black conservatives.

[Seeker]

So if the judge happened to agree with me then that would be OK and you'd pay up without further fuss? Like it doesn't even matter if the claim is just or not as long as it's legal?

[Dis]

I'm not sure what Tory reparations are. But I did not have family in the U.S. in 1776

But if my family was slave holders, and we did profit from it. I would have no problem giving restitution to th relatives of the former slaves if the courts ruled in their favour.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Dissident
I'm not sure what Tory reparations are. But I did not have family in the U.S. in 1776

But if my family was slave holders, and we did profit from it. I would have no problem giving restitution to th relatives of the former slaves if the courts ruled in their favour.

What if you didn't have the money?