Gay segregation, community building & phobism

[Mercator]

Just to put the acceptance of gays in perspective:

20pc of gays threatened in past year

One out of every five gay people in the Netherlands has been confronted in the past 12 months with anti-gay threats, research by the Gay Krant has indicated. Aggression against gay people predominantly occurs in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht and the east of the country. Gays in The Hague and the north of the country are safe from threats. The research was conducted by Out Now Consulting on behalf of the Gay Krant (Gay Newspaper). Verbal threats were the most common complaint.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=10301

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
And an individual's choices and values can be influenced by one's sexual orientation.

Yep, that is also true. So while you stated another facet of lifestyle, it does not necessarily refute my statement.

Since even when one's sexual orientation influences your values, lifestyles still vary more strongly on an indivudual-by-individual basis.

[MrFun]

Another point, Kuciwalker -- when I'm in any gay bar in any city there is no other gay man in that gay bar who has the same exact lifestyle that I have.

[Last Conformist]

I'll start believing in a gay lifestyle when I see straight one.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Atahualpa


Do you think the American way of white suburbs vs black inner city is doing anything good to your society (in the long run)?

the isolation of poor blacks in the inner city is a bad thing. The existence of middle class black suburbs is a good thing - some blacks choose to celebrate their identiy in such suburbs, while others prefer not to. Just as some Jews prefer to live in mainly jewish areas, or even move to Israel, while others prefer to live in mainly gentile areas. My impression is that some gays want to live in mainly gay neighborhoods, or even move to a heavily gay city like SF, while others prefer not to. Its THEIR choice, and i think a good way of living as a minority can be found with either choice.

[Atahualpa]

I never dared to put in question the choice of where you'd like to live.

[MrFun]

A lot of blacks are living in ghettos not by choice, but because they do not have any other choice.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
I never dared to put in question the choice of where you'd like to live.

"What are you rocking? Who said something about living the way others want you to be.
Why do you make it seems that in our modern society it is impossible that gays and heteros can't live side by side peacefully? Cause actually that I think is what would make the situation better for all of us.
[b]If Gays are living their gay life and heteros are living theirs more and more prejudices will grow and conflict will not be avoidable. Only if we mix [/b}we can learn to understand and live with each other.
That's what I think."


I took this as suggesting that those who dont mix are in part responsible conflict. beyond a point, a very limited point, I dont agree.

[Atahualpa]

Yeah but that still doesn't conflict with fundamental rights. People are free to do whatever they want. The fact that I find something good or not is upon the hearer to decide if that should influence him or not.

[Thorn]

Maybe people will start treating gay people nicer, after I run Panzers through their houses! I assure you I am the minority, though I'd like to change that. One day the sun will never set on my Empire.....

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
What??? gays are humans, heteros are humans. Your shark vs human comparison is absolute nonsense.

Are you being deliberately stupid or were you born that way? Do you not understand the concept of an allagory?

Okay, let me see if I can make it any easier for you to understand. You have the choice of hanging out with people like you and people who make fun of you and occassionally beat you up, who do you choose? If you have a modicome of intelligence (which at this moment I am doubting) you will chose to hang out with people who won't hurt you!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
I'll start believing in a gay lifestyle when I see straight one.

You live the straight one.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Are you being deliberately stupid or were you born that way? Do you not understand the concept of an allagory?

Okay, let me see if I can make it any easier for you to understand. You have the choice of hanging out with people like you and people who make fun of you and occassionally beat you up, who do you choose? If you have a modicome of intelligence (which at this moment I am doubting) you will chose to hang out with people who won't hurt you!

Ease up, he's being inquisitve, forthright and showing a good deal of compassion.

At any rate, it's not that simple. Since straights make up 90% or so of the population, willful separation from "straight society" involves a great deal of effort. It would be impossible for most people to live, eat, sleep, work and play solely among homosexuals. They'd have to disown their own family to do so.

On top of that, it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of straights, in Western society at least, don't beat up gays, and most wouldn't make fun of gays (to their face, at least).

[Atahualpa]

Maybe people will start treating gay people nicer, after I run Panzers through their houses!

Hmm yeah that's what someone addressed here. I can't find it though. I think one should tend to avoid feeling pro-gay, because one is feeling sorry/pity for gays. I can't tell, but believe this is not what gays would like to have (or probably anybody).
As for me personally I really don't like to be pro or anti gay, these "extreme" views are not what I'd like to achieve. I only aim for an informed neutral view, because I can neither justify before myself a reason that I want a strong gay community to be pro gay, nor can I justify a reason that I want all gays to get extinguished.

Some people probably think you are pro gay if you only tolerate them and let them do what they want, but to me that looks like wanting to polarize. I always find it hard to accept an "either you are with us or against us" point of view.

You have the choice of hanging out with people like you and people who make fun of you and occassionally beat you up, who do you choose?

The problem is that I can't reproduce that. I have no hatred against gay people and have not experienced such in the past (read: I haven't had real contact with gays overall). Therefore your comment seems a bit alien to me. Sure some of my friends say they don't like gays, but I don't give much to that since I believe they don't have much more contact than me and actually should not judge.

If you have the feeling that there is a lot of hatred and force against gay people, show me something that I can "reproduce/understand" your allagory.

he's being inquisitve, forthright and showing a good deal of compassion.

Thank you. I am always struggeling a bit to get understood.

[chequita guevara]

Just in case you missed this.

Originally posted by Atahualpa
If you have the feeling that there is a lot of hatred and force against gay people, show me something that I can "reproduce/understand" your allagory.

Originally posted by Mercator

20pc of gays threatened in past year

One out of every five gay people in the Netherlands has been confronted in the past 12 months with anti-gay threats, research by the Gay Krant has indicated. Aggression against gay people predominantly occurs in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht and the east of the country. Gays in The Hague and the north of the country are safe from threats. The research was conducted by Out Now Consulting on behalf of the Gay Krant (Gay Newspaper). Verbal threats were the most common complaint.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...story_id=10301