Gay segregation, community building & phobism

[Solly]

Because without "straight society" (), theirs wouldn't exist anyhow.

[Atahualpa]

Well I guess because it was us who started to create the barrier. If we wouldn't have seperated people by their sexual orientation then there would probably be no gay/straight society now.

[Solly]

They separate themselves IMO. And then start to act differently from normal people.

[Atahualpa]

They separate themselves because they weren't tolerated. And acting differently is just another follow-up. Even though I can't really tell that they act differently. Seriously would you ever have believed of Asher to be a gay? (sorry Asher that I make such a case out of you)

Take a child and tell it that it isnt wanted and such. You'll notice it will become very strange.
You probably know the hierarchy of needs by Maslow. Love and Acceptance comes right after Safety.

http://web.utk.edu/~gwynne/maslow.HTM

Everyone is at a certain level and aims at the next higher level to achieve. You cannot go higher if you haven't fulfilled all the needs of your actual level. If you never got loved, you'll be running around all your live seeking for love.

[Boris Godunov]

Taking any thing PA says about gays as if he knows what he is talking about is akin to seriously considering Herman Goering's thoughts on civil rights. Best not waste your time.

[Atahualpa]

Hmm I am not really wasting my time. I always liked the idea of the hierarchy of needs.

[Solly]

It's not very scientific..

[Atahualpa]

More scientific than your comments though

[Jarouik]

I kinda have the same feeling about the most extreme forms of gay associationism - even though I am a member of the gay group at our university myself because there very evidently is still need for such a group. I can understand the need to group with others like you in a society where gays are generally still not equal to straight people, but as long as this tendency continues, gays will never be accepted in other communities.

I realize it is hard, but *in addition* to being active in gay groups, I think all lgbt people should be themselves in all parts of their lives as well, i.e. job, studies and hobbies. Of course, sexuality is not something that always comes as a subject of discussion, but when it does, at least I feel like I am making the world a little bit better by letting people know an ordinary guy like me can be gay. If it weren't that my boyfriend and I both happen to be active in our physics students' organization (and actually met there in the first place ), people I study with might not realize there were gays in their department at all. I believe we have made many people more tolerant of gays by just being open about it.

[Atahualpa]

I believe we have made many people more tolerant of gays by just being open about it.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
They separate themselves IMO. And then start to act differently from normal people.

Another gross oversimplification from our fellow Apolytoner, PA.



First off, group separation based on sexual orientation resulted from several factors, among them which include:

gay militant extremist minority who are heterophobic (not that even all gay heterophobes separate themselves by living in a gay community),

majority of gays who hold moderate values, but still believe that they are safer in a gay community, but are still comfortable moving between the enclave and mainstream society while living in a gay community (whether it's true or not, it's what they believe) -- and this is obviously not to say that every gay who holds moderate values lives in a gay community but here, I'm talking about those that do

and then of course, there are homophobic straight people and the willfully ignorant straight people who insist on dividing human society by sexual orientation through anti-gay laws and anti-gay attitudes



It all comes down to alienation between straights and gays, and while homophobes and willfully ignorant are not the only people by themselves to contribute to this, they certainly are a major contributor.

And I'm sure what I posted still does not cover every sociological and psychological factor on separation of gays and straights but at least I made an effort to show the complexity of such phenemona (unlike you).

[chequita guevara]

Why should _______s expose themselves to bigotry 24/7 just because some people think that integration is the be all and end all of the quest for justice and equality? _______s need a safe space away from the bigotry of others, in order to just enjoy the peace and commradery of others like themselves. No annoying questions about what it's like to be _______, no having to be reminded that you're _______ in someone else's world. Just some time and space to be human.

I love how memebers of the dominant group always blame ______s for their own segregation. It's not the fact that we treat ______s like ****, deny them housing, jobs, assault them verbally, empotionally, and physically, it's that they want to be seperate.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Agathon
Isn't that a bit gross? It's like making a point of hanging around black people to prove you aren't racist, when doing this is a sign of a major racist hang up. I don't think I'd like the idea of someone trying to be a friend just to make themselves feel less bad.

If you want to learn what Black people are really like, there's no substitute for hanging out with Black people.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Agathon


The moral of this story is that there's always going to be some people out of any minority who will support some form of radical segregationist chauvinism. It's a bit like those deaf people who think that there's something wrong with people who can hear and think that looking for a cure for deafness is evil.

IIUC deaf culture advocates DONT think there is something wrong with people who can hear - they DO think that Sign Language culture is equally valid, and that imposing cures for deafness on deaf from birth children is wrong, in particular implants. From what Ive heard for some who has never heard, and who brain has not developed to process sound, the sudden flood of noise from implants is VERY unpleasant. IIUC the sign for implants in Ameslan looks like a vampires teeth - this is not among a radical minority, its standard Ameslan, IIUC.


Of course there are some people who think EVERY minoritys attempt to protect its own culture is necessarily chauvinist, and who express such thoughts without making any particular attempt to understand the minority culture.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Boshko

It surprised me that it took this long for someone to bring this up. A major reason people join clubs is to find people to ****, this applies to all kinds of people.

Yes, if you are straight there is a 'theoretical' ability to do it with any female, but people are quite picky. So you still have to find the right place to meet people you want to meet.