French language lessons. Mods please read it!

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Kalius
I realise that, but esp(uh)re and (ay)crire are graves and acutes respectively, whereas tr(ay) follows the acute pronounciation but is a grave.

Actually it doesn't. The correct pronounciation of très is the same as espère.

[Frozzy]

Hmmm. I suppose it does. Never mind then.

[LDiCesare]

Les accents sur le e (é, &egrave donnent deux sons différents. Ceci dit, ça dépend de quelle région on est. Je prononce 'et' è alors que c'est censé être é par exemple.
La plupart des langues utilisent des accents. C'est bien plus facile a apprendre. En anglais, savoir comment prononcer 'th' est une vraie galère par exemple: this/thin???
En plus on a des combinaisons de lettres pour les voyelles: Oiseau.
Accents on the e are for two different dounds. This said, it depends which region you come from. I pronounce 'et' (and) the same as 'est' (is) for instance.
Most tongues use accents. It's far easier to learn. In English, knowing how to pronounce 'th' is a real pain for instance: this/thin???
And we have combinations of letters for vowels: Bird is oiseau (wazo).

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kalius
Pourquoi-y a il accents? Anglais a un combinaison de lettres, n'accent pas... C'est très difficile. Et pourquoi est très avec un grave, n'aigu pas? C'est prononça "tray", non?

En fait, l'"accent grave" (è) n'est qu'un nom, un mauvais nom. le "è" est toujours plus aigü que le "é".

En Français, comme dans beaucoup d'autres langues sauf l'Anglais, la prononciation est cohérente avec l'écrit à quelques exceptions près, et il faut connaître quelques règles (le "s" à la fin d'un mot ne se prononce pas, tout comme le "e", et il faut connaître les combinaisons de lettres: oi, au, eau, etc).

Très: "tray". Près: "pray". Parallèle: "parallayl" etc. Espère: "espayre" etc.

Pronunciation in French is cohesive with the written form once you know the rules. "è" is always said "è". At least in the parts of France where they know how to speak

[Atahualpa]

Vraiment tu prononces très comment tray en anglais? J'ai cru que le "è" est plus pure.

Really, you pronounce très (very) like tray in english. I have believed that the "è" es much more pure

edit: J'ai oublié la traducion / I have forgotten the translation. (Is this really necessary all the time?, I feel like a child)

[Frozzy]

J'ai appris très = "tray", près = pray, mais "j'ai" est "zhai"

Pourqoui ne "trai" pas?

I have learned "very" = "tray", "near" = "pray", but "I have" is "zhai"

Why not "trai"?

I'm trying to make the point that English uses combinations of letters to pronounce accents, and the avoir example above shows a bit of a disrepancy in the French usage of letter combinations to get accross a sound and accents, when a grave and "ai" give a most similar sound. Or is there a subtle difference I am missing

[Atahualpa]

Je prononce très comment (je crois) "treh" en anglais, seulement que mon "e" est courte.

Et pour "J'ai" est "Sche" en alleman et "Je" est "Schö". En anglais est quand tu dis "shell" seulement sans "ll", mais tu ne dois pas dire "she"

I explained how I'd pronounce très and J'ai resp. Je

[duke o' york]

Je voudrais bien discuter Civ (Civ 2 seulement ) and n'importe quoi d'autre avec vous, mais je n'ai pas envie à traduire ce que je vien de dire. Bon courage à tous ceux aussi assidus à continuer.

I'd love to chat about Civ 2 and whatever else, but I don't want to translate everything I've just said. I salute those who are diligent enough to keep doing this though.

Am I supposed to translate smilies?

[Henrik]

This thread couldn't have come at a better time

[LDiCesare]

Similar sounds: ai, é. et
Similar sounds: ais, ais, è, est
These sets of sounds are different.
Personnally, although it should be pronounced 'tray', I pronounce très 'trai'. As a good Lorrain, I also pronounce lai instead of lay for lait (milk). So it depends on a lot of things. Many people are unable to hear the difference between in and un for instance but it really pisses me off when one pronounces one for the other.
Do not believe there are inconsistencies in the way French is written. Except for borrowed words, there aren't. The rules are just a bit complex (les règles sont juste un peu compliquées).
Also don't trust Spiffor when he says final e aren't pronounced. If you go far enough to the south, people pronounce the e's. They also become unable to pronounce words like 'rose' properly (I say 'rôse').

[Dry]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
Similar sounds: ai, é. et
Similar sounds: ais, ais, è, est
These sets of sounds are different.
Personnally, although it should be pronounced 'tray', I pronounce très 'trai'. As a good Lorrain, I also pronounce lai instead of lay for lait (milk). So it depends on a lot of things.

è is non-ambiguous. It is pronounced as the 'e' in 'set' or 'less'. When it's pronounced otherwise it's specific to a region.
ai is pronounced as the 'a' of 'fate' if final (or almost final just before an e). When followed by another letter it's as è.

Many people are unable to hear the difference between in and un for instance but it really pisses me off when one pronounces one for the other.

Depends on the region. Most parts of France do not make the difference. (piss off the Belgians too ), so that some dictionnaries now allows to pronounced 'brun' same as 'brin'.

Do not believe there are inconsistencies in the way French is written. Except for borrowed words, there aren't. The rules are just a bit complex (les règles sont juste un peu compliquées).

One comes to my mind... how do you pronounce 'événement'?

Also don't trust Spiffor when he says final e aren't pronounced. If you go far enough to the south, people pronounce the e's. They also become unable to pronounce words like 'rose' properly (I say 'rôse').

I would agree with Spiffor on that.
And I even add:
't', as in 'mandat' (mandate).
'd' as in 'comprend' (understand)
'p' as in 'trop' (too much)
'x' as in 'cheveaux' (horses)
'l' as in 'fusil' (gun)
'c' as in 'tronc' (trunk)
... and I think I forget some others.

[duke o' york]

Rose just elongates the S sound. There is no independent E sound. Spiffor a raison.

[LDiCesare]

that some dictionnaries now allows to pronounced 'brun' same as 'brin'

Reading that makes my teeth grind. Brrr...

how do you pronounce 'événement'?

I (mis?)spell it évènement.
I just talked about the final e, not all final letters. Some of them are pronounced (liaison) if followed by a vowel sound: 'trop appuyé' = 'trop apuiyé', 'trop poussé' = 'tro pusé' (too pushed), but oftentimes are not.
As for rose: the o is not pronounced the same in Lorraine and in Béarn. The final e can be pronounced by southerners, but will never be by northerners.
But as far as foreigners are concerned, never pronounce final e's. Don't be surprised if you can't understand what a marseillais will tell you, however.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
Vraiment tu prononces très comment tray en anglais? J'ai cru que le "è" est plus pure.

Le è est plus pur, c'est juste. Autant que je sache, le son "ay" comme dans l'Anglais "Stray dog" est quasi inexistant en Français. J'ai utilisé cette façon de représenter le son par simplicité, mais je ne veux surtout pas induire qu'il y aurait une diphtongue dans "très", "près" "père" etc.

De manière général, il y a beaucoup moins de diphtongues en Français qu'en Anglais. Les diphtongues courantes du français sont "oi" et tous les mots comprenant "ille". A part pour ces deux là, c'est mieux de partir du principe qu'un son ne sera pas une diphtongue (même si ce sera parfois faux)

[i]The è is more pure indeed. I didn't want to imply there was a diphtongue ( ) in the words above. In general, diphtongues are rare in Franch, and save when you see "oi" and "ille", it's better to consider the sound isn't one.

[Dry]

Now, something more funny.
A small french enigma.
One of the weirdest rules in french.
I think only 1 French on 100 knows it (I think Spiffor could know it).
I'd also like to know if this exist in other languages.

What weird rule share the 3 following words:
Amour (love)
Délice (delight)
Orgue (organ, the music intrument)