Arrest me and throw away the key

[Ben Kenobi]

Note that this is the prosecutor's justification for the arrest, which is very good evidence, rather than the complaint of the victim.

[smacksim]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Leviticus 20:13

" If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

O.k., someone has to say it:

"When I lie with a guy, I'm usually just showing off. When I lie with a woman, it's always about what I've been doing since I last saw her. So I'll be sure to keep these lies distinct."

-Smack, who doesn't want to go to hell but thinks humor is healthy.

[joncha]

Do you support the death penalty for homosexual relations, BK? Do you advocate it in anyway?

If NO, then relax.

If YES, then go directly to Jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

[Ben Kenobi]

Now, I could really use a Swede here...

http://www.kyrkanstidning.com/ArticlePages/200406/29/20040629145112_Headline584/20040629145112_Headline584.dbp.asp

Pastor dömd för homohets

Pingstpastor Åke Green dömdes i dag för hets mot folkgrupp. Kalmar tingsrätt dömer honom till en månads fängelse för att ha hetsat mot homosexuella i en predikan i juli 2003.

Pingstpastor Åke Green.
Foto: Barometern/OT

Domen kan bli prejudicerande eftersom det är första gången den nya lagen om hets mot homosexuella prövas.

Tingsrätten dömer Åke Green för att han ”i sin predikan uppsåtligen gjort uttalanden som klart uttrycker missaktning mot människor på grund av deras sexuella läggning och det får därtill anses vara ställt utom allt rimligt tvivel att dessa hans uttalanden gjorts i syfte att miss- och ringakta homosexuella som grupp.”

Hets mot folkgrupp anses inte vara ett ringa brott utan ska om inte särskilda skäl finns leda till fängelse, med ett maxstraff på två år.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you support the death penalty for homosexual relations, BK? Do you advocate it in anyway?

No, and no.

However, I have compiled a list of the biblical passages with respect to homosexuality.

I have, on occasion, offered my interpretations of these passages, to the effect that homosexuality is sinful, and that just like any other sinner, they should repent of their sins.

So, if we are to regard this prosecution in Sweden as a precedent here in Canada, then I could be charged.

Heck, I'm not even a pastor, and I am not doing this in a church! I'm doing this out in public.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Pekka
Europe != Sweden. And you Americans think you are smart with your geographics and generalisations?

Hey, we don't have those kind of laws. I can go and say the n-word and beat the crap out of a black person, admit racist motivation and get MAX fines of 1 grand.
I can do the same to homosexual

So yeah in here we ARE free to do what ever we want.

Well admittedly I don't know much about Finland, but..

I know many countries on the continent have banned "Mein Kampf" and the Nazi party. Scientology is banned in Germany, possibly other countries. And France's disgusting headscarf ban....

I'm sure there are many other anti-free speech things in Europe.

[Aeson]

Collecting Bible cites on this topic as he (Pastor Green) does makes this hate speech.

This denotes that collecting Bible cites is not the only reason. I don't know what else he is referencing, but it is obvious that he is not just referencing the use of Bible cites.

As such, it doesn't prove anything. Only a fundamentalist wacko or someone with very low reading comprehension would assume it does. Show how he (Pastor Green) was using those cites, and then we could decide on whether or not the ruling was justified.

[St Leo]

Sweden

Pastor Jackasses

[Ben Kenobi]

As such, it doesn't prove anything. Only a fundamentalist wacko or someone with very low reading comprehension would assume it does. Show how he (Pastor Green) was using those cites, and then we could decide on whether or not the ruling was justified.

Aeson:

Not necessarily.

I agree that it would be better to have a copy of his sermon in Sweden in front of us, but consider this.

Freedom of speech, and religion is not merely the ability to believe in something, but also to express it. You cannot have this right, if you only allow a person to do as I have done, by providing a list. The man is a pastor, and ought to be able to present his analysis. This is why he gets paid the big bucks, to interpret these passages of scripture.

I agree with you that it would be wrong for someone to say that one ought to kill all those who are homosexuals, but this does not seem to be the case. Surely, if the prosecutor had evidence to show this, he would have cited this as his reason for arrest? However, from the statements of the prosecutor, it seems that the compiliation of passages in scripture was enough to secure his arrest.

If this is so, then I ought also be charged and arrested for hate speech here in Canada.

[Thorn]

Down with Ben!! Boo!

[Pekka]

OzzyKP, would you like me to hurt my fingers while totally trashing your argument, or is it enough if I say you are way off base here?

[Kassiopeia]

Pingstpastor Åke Green dömdes i dag för hets mot folkgrupp. Kalmar tingsrätt dömer honom till en månads fängelse för att ha hetsat mot homosexuella i en predikan i juli 2003.

"Reverend (? a clergyman anyway) Åke Green was sentenced today for incitement of violence/hate/something not nice towards a group of people to a month in prison after inciting people against homosexuals in a parish in July 2003".

As far as I know, hets is like "prosecution" or "telling people to go do bad things to someone". The English version in the opening post with "incitement of hatred" is pretty close, but it's vague in both versions whether it's mere hate or inciting actual acts of violence. A native Swedish-speaker will probably be able to clarify this.

[Pekka]

BK, So say, if a religion would say that black people are bad and not God's work, would that be ok to preach around? Of course it wouldn't be.

And furthermore I am sure that jsut citing these scriptures isn't enough for conviction in the evil Sweden. Maybe he took some own liberties expressing and extending these scriptures.

Bible isn't very good on other religions, like having false Gods. But I don't see pastors goign around and bashing other religions. So why would he bash gays, what is the interest in that?

And don't get dramatic, I'm sure you're not commiting any crime here. with the martyrdom.

[Agathon]

Perhaps Christianity is a hate religion?

[Ben Kenobi]

Darn!

Where is Combat Ingrid when you need her.

Kassi, could you help find one of the Swedes here on Poly so we can obtain a better translation?

'Reverend'

Yup, that's right. Swedes are Lutherans, so their pastors are Reverends.