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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
    The majority of Canadians are not happy with the leftist agenda on either issue, and are currently better represented by the Conservatives, then they are by the Liberals.
    If that were at all true, then why did the Conservatives just get smoked by the Liberals? And yes, they did get smoked considering they had far more momentum and there was a point not too long before the election that people were thinking a Conservative majority wasn't out of the realm of possibility. Not to mention that they actually lost ground in the popular vote when compared to the two right parties combined in the last election. All of this in the face of large-scale scandals, corruption and general incompetence on the part of the Liberals.

    Time to pull your head out of the sand, Ben.
    "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
    "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
    "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


      Well, would you accept evidence from Gallup?



      This is from 2001, and I do not have the more recent figures since I do not have access to my files.

      You can see the PDF for yourself at:

      http://www.cric.ca/pdf/gallup/gallup...1_abortion.pdf
      Yes, Ben. Canadians are desperate for a party that takes a strong position against abortion and gay marriage. From the Christian Heritage Party's website (in fact, the very first sentence on the site):

      "The CHP is Canada's only pro-Life, pro-family federal political party..."

      Seats won by CHP - 0
      Votes cast for CHP - 40,265 (0.3% of popular vote)

      In contrast, Stephen Harper got 34,646 votes in his own riding (which, incidently, also had a CHP candidate running and who received a whopping 225 votes).
      "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
      "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
      "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

      Comment


      • #18
        If that were at all true, then why did the Conservatives just get smoked by the Liberals?
        For the reason I explained earlier. They had nothing in their platform for cities. They did poorly in cities, and quite well in rural areas.

        They did not get hurt for their so-called social conservatism, since they are hardly socially conservative.

        Canadians are desperate for a party that takes a strong position against abortion and gay marriage.
        If you mean by a strong stand, that they desire some restrictions to be placed on abortion, then you are correct.

        This position would be much more moderate than the Christian Heritage party, or even my own position.
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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        • #19
          Ben Kenobi, a rare example of the Canadian Ostrich.
          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
          Stadtluft Macht Frei
          Killing it is the new killing it
          Ultima Ratio Regum

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          • #20
            This is for Uncle Sparky, since I can't attach files in a PM.

            He lost his bet, so I get to change his avatar.
            Attached Files
            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

            Comment


            • #21
              Ben,

              Why do you think restrictions need to be placed on abortion?

              What restrictions do you think should be placed on abortion?

              I work for a market research/polling company. The information posted in that Gallup poll is fun, interesting and completely meaningless.

              The questions asked were:
              "Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstance, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all
              circumstances?"
              "In which of these specific cases would you think an abortion should be legal?
              - if there is a strong chance of a serious defect in the baby
              - if the woman's health is seriously endangered by the pregnancy
              - if agreed upon by a woman and her physician
              - if the family has a very low income and cannot afford any more children
              - if it is within 5 months of conception
              - if it is within 3 months of conception
              - if conception is due to rape or incest"


              I can guarantee you that the responses would be very different if the following question had been asked:
              “Do you think a woman should be arrested, criminally charged and serve a jail term if she had an abortion under any circumstance, only in certain circumstances, or in no circumstances?”

              “In which of these specific cases would you think the federal government should pass a law which would mean a woman would be arrested, criminally charged and serve a jail term if she had an abortion?
              - if there is a strong chance of a serious defect in the baby
              - if the woman's health is seriously endangered by the pregnancy
              - if agreed upon by a woman and her physician
              - if the family has a very low income and cannot afford any more children
              - if it is within 5 months of conception
              - if it is within 3 months of conception
              - if conception is due to rape or incest"

              These are in fact the same question after all for the consequence of something being illegal is that you are arrested, charged criminally, and thrown in jail if found guilty.
              ·Circuit·Boi·wannabe·
              "Evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet."
              Call to Power 2 Source Code Project 2005.06.28 Apolyton Edition

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              • #22
                I work for a market research/polling company. The information posted in that Gallup poll is fun, interesting and completely meaningless.
                Well, I've been published for analysing these particular Gallup polls, so I wouldn't claim authority if I were you. Just a suggestion.

                “Do you think a woman should be arrested, criminally charged and serve a jail term if she had an abortion under any circumstance, only in certain circumstances, or in no circumstances?”
                And why should she be charged? When abortion was illegal, the only ones who ever got charged were the doctors.

                The poll questions are legitimate, and I agree with you they should add one more question which was the centre of my analysis. I tried to determine how many people agreed with the statement that abortion should only be available to preserve the life of the mother, since Gallup did not ask that question.

                These are in fact the same question after all for the consequence of something being illegal is that you are arrested, charged criminally, and thrown in jail if found guilty.
                And for the reasons that I stated, the women ought not to be the ones going to jail. The doctors who profit off killing children should be the only ones to go to jail, not the women, who are often ignorant as to fetal development, and in many cases, pressured into having the abortion.

                Your critique does nothing to assail my point that the majority of Canadians do wish to see abortion restricted in certain circumstances, such that the doctors will be charged.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                  Well, would you accept evidence from Gallup?
                  Not the day after all the pollsters got it wrong.
                  Golfing since 67

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                  • #24
                    Not the day after all the pollsters got it wrong.
                    Was Gallup among the pollsters?

                    These questions have been asked for more than a decade, going back to the Morgentaler decision. There are earlier polls, though they are less frequent the further back you go.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                      The majority of Canadians are not happy with the leftist agenda on either issue, and are currently better represented by the Conservatives, then they are by the Liberals.
                      Earth to Ben, Earth to Ben:

                      70% of Canadians voted for centre-left parties. The majority of Canadians rejected the out-dated, regressive policies of the Conservatives.
                      Golfing since 67

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                      • #26
                        The majority of Canadians rejected the out-dated, regressive policies of the Conservatives.
                        What is the Conservative's regressive policy on abortion?

                        A private members bill in parliament?

                        I suppose that means no private members bills should ever become law again in Canada, in order to protect the people from the ravages of the right.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                          And for the reasons that I stated, the women ought not to be the ones going to jail. The doctors who profit off killing children should be the only ones to go to jail, not the women, who are often ignorant as to fetal development, and in many cases, pressured into having the abortion.
                          Doctors force over 100,000 women each year who planned to get pregnant and really want to have a child to get an abortion so that they (doctors) can make money.

                          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                          Your critique does nothing to assail my point that the majority of Canadians do wish to see abortion restricted in certain circumstances, such that the doctors will be charged.
                          We all know what you think. We are all thankful that what you think is universes away from the reality the rest of us live in, but your blind faith in your ignorant bigoted personal paradigm make you oblivious to that fact.



                          I'm off to bed

                          ·Circuit·Boi·wannabe·
                          "Evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet."
                          Call to Power 2 Source Code Project 2005.06.28 Apolyton Edition

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Doctors force over 100,000 women each year who planned to get pregnant and really want to have a child to get an abortion so that they (doctors) can make money.
                            Did I ever say the doctors force the women into abortions? Nor did I imply such a thing.

                            Many women are coerced by their partners, and families, particularly if they happen to be young.

                            but your blind faith in your ignorant bigoted personal paradigm make you oblivious to that fact.
                            I suppose Gallup has been blinded as well, eh?

                            Just because the evidence argues against you is no reason to get personal.
                            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


                              What is the Conservative's regressive policy on abortion?

                              A private members bill in parliament?

                              I suppose that means no private members bills should ever become law again in Canada, in order to protect the people from the ravages of the right.
                              Are you familiar with the idea that only Nixon could go to China? It was good for a larf in a ST movie, but it is also very true.

                              Look at your own poll. 14% support abortion to be banned under all circumstances. They would be the base line of a socially conservative movement. That leaves 86% of the population that do not want to see ideological laws passed on this topic, and probably others.

                              Now, when a newly founded Conservative party is trying to get its legs under it, do you think it is a good idea to present the 86% with the prospect of ideological conservativism? Do you think any party that ever bases its platform on that 14% will ever form a government?

                              To put it bluntly, Ben, if you ever want to see reform of the open season on infants (which, btw, I find distasteful as well) it will have to be Liberals that do it. Any party from the right that fights an election on it, or that gets the that tail pinned on it during a campaign, is going to lose, big.
                              (\__/)
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                              (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                              • #30
                                Incidently, I agree. The media are the ones who drummed up the storm at the behest of the Liberals and NDP. They went hunting for nutters, and they found a few. However, they wouldn't have done it, and it wouldn't have worked, if the issue did not play into the fears of the average citizen of Ontario (and maybe Quebec).

                                Is it disgusting that a government will based on fear and a campaign where they defeated the opposition based on slander? Yes. But you also have to admit it was not just the Liberals who were playing to that fear. Clark isn't a Liberal.
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                                (='.'=)
                                (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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