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So, have YOU seen "Fahrenheit 9/11"?

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  • For convenience, here are the two bits from Spinsanity I posted before, criticizing his book Stupid White Men.


    Consider, for instance, his claim that "two-thirds of [the over $190 million President Bush raised during the presidential campaign] came from just over seven hundred individuals." Given the $2,000 federal limit on individual donations, this claim is obviously false. To back it up, he cites the Center for Responsive Politics Web site (opensecrets.org) and an August 2000 article from the New York Times. As opensecrets.org clearly indicates, however, only 52.6 percent of Bush's total $193 million in campaign funds came from individuals.

    The Times article Moore references actually states that 739 people gave two-thirds of the soft money raised by the Republican Party (which uses its money for "party-building" activities that support all GOP candidates, not just Bush) in the 2000 election cycle as of June of that year. Whether out of malice or laziness, Moore conflates the party's soft money with Bush's campaign funds.


    In a discussion of Pentagon spending, he refers to the "$250 billion the Pentagon plans to spend in 2001 to build 2800 new Joint Strike Fighter planes" and states that "the proposed increase in monies for the Pentagon over the next four years is $1.6 trillion." To back this up, he refers to the Web site of the peace activist group Council for a Livable World. CLW's own analysis of the 2001 budget, however, shows that $250 billion is the total multiyear cost of the Joint Strike Fighter program, not the amount spent in one year. $1.6 trillion, meanwhile, was the total amount of money requested by the Pentagon at the time for 2001-2005. It covers five years, not four, and is a total budget request, not a "proposed increase" over previously requested budget levels. It shouldn't even take this much research, however, to determine that out of the total defense budget request of $305.4 billion in 2001, $250 billion was never intended to go toward one type of plane, nor that an increase of $400 billion per year in military spending was never proposed.

    Comment


    • I can see I've been thoroughly licked.

      Comment


      • yep
        Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

        Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

        Comment


        • I just saw it.

          The first half of the movie was fairly lame. The worst parts were the descriptions of the Bush-Saudi-bin Laden-Cargyle Group conspiracy. It's almost as half-baked as the bin Laden-Saddam conspiracy Dear Leader has been trumpeting around. The best part of the first half was the covering of Shrub in front of the school children, doing absolutely nothing during the attacks.

          The second part was really exceptional. Almost all of it was very good and very moving from showing scenes of Iraq the manstream media deems unsuitable for public consumptuion, to demonstrating how the burden of the fight fell on the poor. He let the footage do the talking, a smart move.
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

          Comment


          • to demonstrating how the burden of the fight fell on the poor
            No doubt our system is set up in such a way as to invite poorer people to join the military, but I understand there is a scene in which Moore walks up and asks a congressman to sign a petition or something to send the children of Congress to go to Iraq (Moore opposes a draft? hmm) and it just happened Moore chose a guy whose son is in the military and shipping out for Iraq but Moore deleted his response.

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            • That was covered in this thread oohh way back.
              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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              • Doubtful, given that there is only one congressman with a child serving in the military and there are 435 congressmen.

                Even if eh did, it would be pure luck and not indicative of the real situation
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

                Comment


                • I hear MM ripped off the idea of having a couple of minutes of sounds recorded during 9/11 being played back with a blank screen from some other 9/11 documentary.


                  He did.
                  KH FOR OWNER!
                  ASHER FOR CEO!!
                  GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Verto
                    Yes, Moore knows his base is made up of people who care little for factual accuracy, so long as his message is one they agree with.
                    You mean the kind of people that vote for Bush?
                    Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                    Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

                    Comment


                    • It's a bit of a difference between someone like, say, the president suing a film maker and writer like Moore for libel, compare to said film maker and writer suing some idiot blogger on the internet.


                      Yeah, it is much harder for the President to win. Being a 'public figure' as the POTUS, the standard for proving libel is much higher and harder than someone like Moore (who I guess is becomming more and more a 'public figure') to do the same.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Caligastia
                        best-performing "documentary"
                        Liar

                        (course you did put it in quotes)

                        Lastly, repeated claims from Moore that he is an independant are now being proven false. He is registered as a Democrat in NYC despite helping Nader in 2000.
                        "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                        “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
                          repeated claims from Moore that he is an independant are now being proven false. He is registered as a Democrat in NYC despite helping Nader in 2000.
                          Based on his voting for nader I would call him independant. Registering as a democrat is just a technicality.
                          What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
                          What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensation

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pax
                            Based on his voting for nader I would call him independant. Registering as a democrat is just a technicality.
                            Voting record is not the point particularly since there is no definitive way of knowing his voting record.

                            Registering is the point. Michael has denied his registration numerous times in order to gain credence as an 'unbiased' film maker. He created that image in order to dissuade folk from thinking he was a partisan hack in the employ of the democratic party. Just because he or anyone else chooses to vote for other candidates does not mean they are not a member of the party for which they have registered.

                            Heck I was a Republican once upon a time. I voted for a number of Democrats, doesn't mean I wasn't a republican then.
                            "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                            “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
                              Heck I was a Republican once upon a time.


                              Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards recovery.
                              "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                              "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe

                                He created that image in order to dissuade folk from thinking he was a partisan hack in the employ of the democratic party.
                                Yeah -- just like Republicans have their own hacks that work for them (Limbaugh, Coulter, etc.).
                                A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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