Canadian Election Tread (part deux)

[Ben Kenobi]

As for the other examples, they make the Liberals look like idiots. Dark Force? Who do they think they are? Yoda?

Not Yoda...

[Ben Kenobi]

First you say that the UN is toothless without military assistance, then you acknowledge the basic fact that Canada contributes peacekeepers for the UN.

You say that the US provides transport for our peacekeepers and then you say we had no way of sending troops to Iraq.

First of all, peacekeepers! = military support.

Secondly, Canada was unable to get our military over to Iraq without the assistance of the Americans, which was the point that I was trying to make. It's embarrasing to hitch a ride.

[Ben Kenobi]

How can conservatives support a party that wants massive tax cuts and massive spending increases.

You're a fiscal conservative. Do you really believe that Harper can do everything he promises and still balance the budget?

It's called making the pie bigger.

Also known as Reaganomics

[Ben Kenobi]

We will pass legislation that will adopt a zero tolerance policy for child porn, eliminating the so-called “public good” defence."

Essentially, child porn can serve no public good.

Harper knows that eliminating the public good defence and taking a zero tolerance approach would mean banning Romeo and Juliet, Lolita and other works of art.

No, it does not, and for reasons already argued in the thread. If this is not true, then the rest of your case falls apart.

The liberals are soft in child porn, as evidenced by what types of things are allowed here in Canada, such as 'tasteful' nudes of 8 year olds.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
It's called making the pie bigger.

Also known as Reaganomics

Those were proven bunk twenty years ago.

[Bereta_Eder]

Make me president of the United States.

[Ben Kenobi]

Those were proven bunk twenty years ago.

'Proven' wrong in 1984, perhaps, but what about now when we have better hindsight?

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Essentially, child porn can serve no public good.

Dude, Romeo and Juliet is child porn in the eyes of any court of law.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
'Proven' wrong in 1984, perhaps, but what about now when we have better hindsight?

The US is a hollow shell of its former glory as a direct result of Reaganomics. It will collapse the moment white collar jobs are outsourced offshore. The cracks of the colossal Reagan deficits aren't helping.

[Ben Kenobi]

Dude, Romeo and Juliet is child porn in the eyes of any court of law.

According to whom?

Conservatives?

Can you find a single conservative with this opinion, that Romeo and Juliet ought to be considered child porn?

[Ben Kenobi]

The cracks of the colossal Reagan deficits aren't helping.

As opposed to the cracks from the tremendous Trudeau deficits?

[notyoueither]

http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/analysiscommentary/papers.html

Today's Papers
By Peter Kavanagh

June 18, 2004:
Final Edition

Peter Kavanagh

In the News

Ten days before the country goes to the polls, and the election campaign and today's papers are both dominated by polls, party strategies and health care.

"Fresh Onslaught on Tories" (St. John's Telegram), "Harper, Klein will Strip Medicare: PM" (Ottawa Citizen), "Martin Vows to Defend Medicare" (Halifax Chronicle Herald), "Liberals Target Klein, Mulroney" (Globe and Mail) "Klein Threat to Medicare: PM" (Edmonton Journal) were the headlines on some of the papers this morning.

The Liberal party has been quick to pick up on Alberta Premier Ralph Klein's announcement that he would wait until June 30 -- two days after the federal election -- to announce details of changes to Alberta's health-care system. Klein has acknowledged that the planned changes may violate Canada's medicare law. Liberal Leader Paul Martin and his strategists suggested that waiting until after the election was partly to keep the Conservative party's "vision" hidden, and partly in the hope, as Martin said in Chatham Ont., yesterday that Klein will "have a silent partner in Ottawa by the name of Stephen Harper. Someone who will not speak up for the Canada Health Act."

Klein called Martin's comments "mud-slinging," the Alberta health minister called them "desperate and paranoid" and Conservative Leader Stephen Harper accused the Martin of showing an "anti-Western bias." The Calgary Herald would appear to lean towards the perspective of Klein and Harper: " PM Calls Alberta Tories a Threat."

The Montreal Gazette's front-page headline ("It's a Toss-Up"), the Regina Leader-Post's ("Still a Tight Race: Polls"), the National Post's ("Tories and Liberals Stuck in Dead Heat") and the Winnipeg Free Press's "It's A Dead Heat: Polls" capture the sense of the second big story in today's papers -- the polls. The latest COMPAS Poll, done for the CanWest chain in English Canada and the Leger Poll of Quebec done for the Gazette, put the race between the Liberals and the Conservatives at a tie. Compass has the Liberals at 35 per cent, the Conservatives at 34 per cent and the NDP at 17 per cent. Leger has 42 per cent voting Bloc Québécois, 27 per cent voting Liberal, 11 per cent voting Conservative and five per cent voting New Democrat.

The Ottawa Citizen's front page trumpets "Martin's Man Cries Sabotage," which brings in the complications in the polling story. Yesterday, the CanWest chain of papers reported on a leaked Pollara poll that purported to show the Conservatives leaping ahead of the Liberals, 36 per cent to 31 per cent, and heading for a strong minority government. Liberal campaign co-chair David Herle denounced the poll and released the details of some internal polling done by his party that shows the Liberals heading to a minority government with a two-point lead over the Conservatives.

The Ottawa Sun reports on the latest CPAC/SES tracking poll, which shows the Liberals and Conservatives tied at 32 per cent and the NDP at 21 per cent. The Sun headline, "Some Western Voters Would Say 'Oui' to Bloc: Poll" captures the oddest thing about the new CPAC poll. Pollster Nik Nanos said, "We've done 25 days of tracking and we couldn't find one Canadian west of Quebec who would vote for the Bloc. In the last two nights we found a number of them in Western Canada. It's a blip."

The Bloc played a key role in the evolving strategies of the Liberal and Conservative election campaigns. The Edmonton Journal's "Harper Just Says 'Non' to Coalition" and the Ottawa Citizen and Calgary Herald's "No Crazy Alliance with Bloc: Harper" describes the message the Conservative leader took to Quebec on his campaign swing through the province. The Toronto Star captures the Conservative leader's mission as "Harper Heads for the Hills of Martin Country in Quebec." Stephen Harper has repeatedly said Quebecers need an option other than the Bloc or the Liberals and he is hoping the Conservatives can make a breakthrough.

At the same time, Sean Gordon, writing in the Ottawa Citizen ("Top Tories Seek to Muffle Talk of Majority"), reports on the concerns of Conservative insiders that some people on the campaign are getting cocky and "mistaking Liberal disaffection for affection for us." The fear is that the party will appear arrogant, when the reality is that the election could still swing either way.

The evolving Liberal strategy saw the release of new commercials by the party last night. In the Globe and Mail story "Liberals Target Klein, Mulroney," Drew Fagan describes the new television spots and the use of former prime minister Brian Mulroney and former Ontario premier Mike Harris as a code for scaring voters considering voting Conservative. The Toronto Star, "Harper Touts Mulroney, Harris" describes an Ontario campaign stop in North Bay yesterday by the Conservative leader where he praised Mulroney and Harris, saying that "Canada was better off under their stewardship."

The Vancouver Sun reports that NDP Leader Jack Layton's strategy has shifted somewhat from the days when the Liberals and Conservatives were the same: "Layton Warns Harper 'Worse' than Liberals." At a rally yesterday, the Sun reports, Layton didn't stop attacking the Liberals, but he was more critical of the Conservatives. The Toronto Star reports that at a rally in Qualicum Beach, B.C., Layton claimed the NDP was the only party that voters could trust when it came to the environment ("Layton Pushes 'Green' Agenda").

Analysis and commentary

John Ibbitson in his Globe and Mail column ("Liberals' Need to Win Outweighs All") writes that Paul Martin's attack on Ralph Klein yesterday was evidence that the Liberals are hoping the Alberta premier can be to Stephen Harper what Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has been to the federal Liberal party. Ibbitson sees a note of desperation in the move. He argues that Martin, in a bid to win the crucial seats in "Battleground Ontario," is willing to play to Ontario's worst fears of Westerners, Conservatives and the Bloc Québécois. All that matters is assuring the Conservatives don't get a minority government, then reveal all the Liberal dirty laundry and win a subsequent massive majority based on the record of Liberal mismanagement. "To prevent that, anything is fair game. Stitching up the wounds to the federation can wait. Southern Ontario has to be won."

Don Martin, the Calgary Herald and CanWest columnist, tackles Martin's attacks on Klein and Harper on health care in the column "PM Accuses Alberta of Health-Care Conspiracy." Similar to Ibbitson, Don Martin argues, "When you're down, drowning and desperate in Ontario, it's time for all good Liberals to haul out the Alberta bogeyman."

The Toronto Star's editorial this morning tackles Stephen Harper's calculations about the Conservative platform: "Take a Close Look at Harper's Budget." The Star writes that the numbers behind the Harper budget are one of the most controversial aspects to this election campaign, with Paul Martin talking about a $50-billion hole and "many top economists, some with deep conservative ties, are dismissing Harper's platform as financially unworkable." The Star thinks voters need to understand that the budget means big cuts in "everything from food inspections to federal prisons and Canada's space program."

Sounding out Senate reform

Don MacDonald in the Halifax Chronicle Herald ("Shaking Up the Senate, Canvassing a Cabinet") looks at Stephen Harper's plan for an incremental reform of the Senate, which got a boost yesterday from New Brunswick Premier Bernard Lord, and explores why many Nova Scotians are anxious for a discussion of a new design for the Senate.

The Globe and Mail editorial "The Folly of Rushing into Senate Elections" makes the argument that the Senate "as it stands is ripe for abolition," but that in reality this demands constitutional reform not the incremental change currently contemplated by the Conservative platform. The Globe says there are real legal and philosophical grounds for changing the institution thoroughly and constitutionally. The Conservative plan may resonate with Canadians but it is not the best way to go.

The National Post ("Two Es Are Better than None") argues that the incremental Senate reforms planned by the Conservatives and endorsed by Bernard Lord are good first steps. The Post argues that the Senate plays an important constitutional role in Canada and needs to be made more modern and more relevant. While fixing the institution is the ultimate goal, the Post would like to see the task started.

"Harper's Proposal for Senate is Facile," a column by Susan Riley in the Ottawa Citizen, criticizes the Conservative plan for Senate reform as out of touch with the political and constitutional realities of the country. Riley argues you can't really reform the senate without opening up the Constitution and she observes that veterans of the Meech Lake and Charlottetown Accord know what a nightmare that is. She goes on in her column to examine the number of flaws she sees in Harper's proposal and ultimately concludes it isn't grounded in the hard realities of Canadian political life. This issue hardly trumps health care or fiscal accountability on the hustings. But the closer Harper comes to power, the more closely his rivals should examine what looks like a facile proposal.

Tomorrow's edition will be considerably uglier.

[KrazyHorse]

Indeed. Especially after the Conservatives put out a press release which carried the headline "Martin Supports Child Pornography".

[KrazyHorse]

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/06/18/canada/pornography_martin040618

[notyoueither]

In short, someone at 'Tory' HQ ****ed up, big time.

The one thing Harper had going for him was actually being different, not just saying he was. The **** that came out today, of Martin being 'for kiddie rapers' could well cost not only the Conservatives the election, but Canada 2 or 4 more years wherein Martin can relax and bury the bodies of the Chretien years. We all know there are some bodies, yes?

I can't believe it. The Conservatives were winning this election, despite misgivings by many east of Thunder Bay, on the record of Liberal slime and the backlash against a negative Liberal campaign (that's how I see it). Now some **** or two at HQ is risking blowing it all by being dirtier and slimier at the same time. That is quite a feat!. Unfreakingbelievable.

Where is that Green party candidate? They are fiscally responsible, aren't they?

Oh crap! Wake me up in a hundred years. OK?