Canadian Election Tread (part deux)

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Indeed. Especially after the Conservatives put out a press release which carried the headline "Martin Supports Child Pornography".

They did the same, but to the entire NDP caucus.

When you have a shot gun and you feel frustrated, or like sabotaging a campaign, better make sure you hit everybody.

[KrazyHorse]

Dude, I'm telling you: red Tories like you got the ****ing shaft when the Alliance raped the PC and took their name.

They should have been more careful when they made a deal with the devil.

Harper is a ****ing extremist. The whole CA wing of the Conservatives is. They've been trying to keep a lid on it, but this ain't your parents' Oldsmobile...

[KrazyHorse]

And yeah, I think the Grits are long overdue for a kick in the nuts. But today's Conservative party is not one that I want to see anywhere near the PMO.

[notyoueither]

... and exhibit A from the other side.

I really thought it should be Tingkai.

Harper is about as extreme as a popsicle. What is it with 'you people'? You see a Conservative from Alberta and assume the apocalypse is coming on.

Where he ****ed up today was in being loyal to staffers and not firing someone's ass.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
And yeah, I think the Grits are long overdue for a kick in the nuts. But today's Conservative party is not one that I want to see anywhere near the PMO.

Some time or other, kitty. It's gotta happen.

Hope they get a minority. They aren't ready for a majority. But the Liberals can't be left in there forever.

[KrazyHorse]

BS on the Harper deal. He keeps his mouth shut, but read some of the **** he wrote before he was a politico.

And I'm looking at a Tory from Alberta right now. I didn't blink when you called yourself a centrist because you are. Harper's a wolf in sheep's clothing and always has been.

I don't think Harper's an evil man. I just think that his vision of what Canada is differs greatly from my own and from that of the bulk of voters in the East.

He's not a religious nut like Day, but I don't want him with the power to break anything we've worked to build for the last 30 years.

So back off the bigotry bull****. And read Harper's response to the uproar. He's trying to hammer Martin on a nonissue. Bless the gods for biting him in the ass on it.

[Seeker]

Things out lawed by the CA (or whatever they call themselves now) by a strict reading of their porn platform:

-Kenneth Branagh's MacBeth
-the Tin Drum (german anti-war film)
-Ancient greek artwork, greek and roman plays (if illustrated), statuary
-a frank historical document of the behaviour of various popes, kings and emperors as we have seen right here on apolyton.
-That french artist who drew the 19th century painting of nude children warming themselves in front of a fire after a bath.
-The slideshow my dad just e-mailed me of my baby nephew.
etc etc etc

Clearly, an artistic taste/public good clause is needed to prevent the fundies from censoring anything that their 'children have original sin, sexualize everything' view finds offensive.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
First of all, peacekeepers! = military support.

Secondly, Canada was unable to get our military over to Iraq without the assistance of the Americans, which was the point that I was trying to make. It's embarrasing to hitch a ride.

All the political parties are in favour of increased military spending including transport aircraft, but Harper is going overboard. He wants a military that can fight the Cold War. He wants to fight yesterday's war.

The current strategy of the Canada Armed Forces is to create a force that can be deployed quickly and mainly by airlift. Buying MBTs designed for conventional war doesn't make sense.

Harper says we need helicopter carriers because Canada used a carrier as a transport ship during the 1956 Suez crisis. He's stuck in the past.

[Seeker]

Militarily the most pressing thing is:

a) modernized helicopters, we should not have these senseless Sea King deaths.

b) modernized fighters: in a 'real' war Canada's most important contribution is strike aircraft. Sooner or later we need to replace the CF-18 with C F/A-18 which can work well with NATO forces.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither
You see a Conservative from Alberta and assume the apocalypse is coming on.

You do know that Harper was born and raised in Toronto.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
BS on the Harper deal. He keeps his mouth shut, but read some of the **** he wrote before he was a politico.

And I'm looking at a Tory from Alberta right now. I didn't blink when you called yourself a centrist because you are. Harper's a wolf in sheep's clothing and always has been.

I don't think Harper's an evil man. I just think that his vision of what Canada is differs greatly from my own and from that of the bulk of voters in the East.

He's not a religious nut like Day, but I don't want him with the power to break anything we've worked to build for the last 30 years.

So back off the bigotry bull****. And read Harper's response to the uproar. He's trying to hammer Martin on a nonissue. Bless the gods for biting him in the ass on it.

Actually, he's biting on Martin with some reason, and a lot of very pissed off people agree with him in the wake of a court case yesterday. However, the way the issue was sent out today is what is now the issue.

Harper's vision for Canada differs from yours based on ideology. Right vs left and such. If you can say extremist about him, others could say extremist about Layton, but we both know that's not how these questions get framed, don't we?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Seeker
Things out lawed by the CA (or whatever they call themselves now) by a strict reading of their porn platform:

Based on what said by whom, where?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
According to whom?
Conservatives?
Can you find a single conservative with this opinion, that Romeo and Juliet ought to be considered child porn?

No one believes that R&J is child porn, but think of the definition of child pornography. It's something that portrays people under 18 having sex. If we take an extreme "zero tolerance" approach using this definition then R&J would fall under child porn. We don't want this to happen so we create an exemption for works of artistic merit. The BC case showed how this exemption could be abused so the Government added the condition requiring that the art must serve the public good.

So the law works. Real child porn is banned while works of art like R&J are not.

Understand?

The Conservatives want to change that by banning anything that might involve minors having sex. That's crazy because it is too extreme.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Seeker
Militarily the most pressing thing is:

a) modernized helicopters, we should not have these senseless Sea King deaths.

b) modernized fighters: in a 'real' war Canada's most important contribution is strike aircraft. Sooner or later we need to replace the CF-18 with C F/A-18 which can work well with NATO forces.

You're right about the helicopters, but the second most important thing we need to do is to increase the size of the Forces to meet our international commitments. I agree with the Conservatives platform of adding 30,000 more troops, but that is going to cost about $3.5 billion a year.

The third thing the Forces need is better Command, Control and Communications equipment like the digital communications equipment used by the Americans.

The CF-18s are already being upgraded so there's no pressing need to buy new fighters or upgrade them more like the Conservatives want to do.

[KrazyHorse]

Layton is an extremist. So am I.

That's why we're not in line for an NDP government any time soon.

But people know what they're voting for when they vote for Jack. People don't know what they're getting into when they vote for Steve. The guy is as far to the right on economic issues as Layton is to the left.

It's interesting that you immediately believe the best when this **** comes out of the Conservatives, but if someone attacks Harper in much more moderate terms than claiming he ****s little kids, it must have been personally authorised by Paul Martin.

The Conservatives have barely been able to keep themselves from talking themselves into the history books. Harper's had to muzzle his own candidates because they've been embarassing him. Why should we trust anything which comes out of their mouths?

Half of the high-profile Tories defecting (including the entire Atlantic caucus) when Harper took over should have been a sign...