Star Trek vs. Star Wars vs. Babylon 5 Thread

[Dis]

Originally posted by OliverFA


Excuse me for being a bit too general in my explanation. I have to concede you about that. DS9 is definitely much better than TNG. At least in DS9 Sisko realizes that they are in a real war with real consequences, and doesn´t play to act as if he was God like Picard likes to do. Not in all episodes but in many of them. Remember that 7th season episode in which they allow an entire civilization to die because they haven´t discovered warp technology and don´t want to contaminate their society? Better died than contaminated I suppose...

But I have to agree with you. DS9 is far superior than any other Trek series, (except Enterprise season 3) and very very close to Babylon 5. But Babylon 5 wins over DS9 because they don´t have the Federation prejudices.

what do you people have against the prime directive.

the prime directive rules

[Dis]

I think it's about time you guys realize the original star wars movies weren't that great.

They only seemed great because we were kids, and there was nothing like them at the time. While I like Empire Strikes Back, it's far from being the best sci-fi movie around.

that being said, even Star Trek movies aren't that great. Even Star Trek 2: Wrath of Khan is not the best sci-fi movie around.

[Defiant]

One phrase baby makes Star Trek #1, "SHIELDS UP". One Sovreign Class Warship would conqueor all others due to shields.

[Dis]

and the lack of tunnels that lead straight to the one part of the ship that will blow the entire ship up.

[Saint Marcus]

and the lack of teddy bears destroying legions.

[Tattila the Hun]

Aye, it can't be good without teddy-bears.

[The Mad Monk]

Appropo of nothing, but what the hey:

Saturday, May 01, 2004

Does Star Trek Hate Women Now?

I'm beginning to run out of other explanations.

Sometime around the middle of Voyager, there seems to have been a... shift... in the way the series portrays fe-males.

Trek has a proud history there, for the most part. Granted, the miniskirt uniforms and childlike characterization in the original series look kind of embarrassing today, but that series actually WAS progressive for 1960s TV. And beginning with NextGen, Trek presented us with a procession of women who could actually be interesting as people: Yar, Crusher, Troi, Guinan, Ro, Kira, Dax*2, Kes, Torres, Janeway. All these shows had their bad years (Voyager had more bad than good), but at their best even Troi and Kes had something to offer the story besides a nice rack. (As in tune with emotions as she was, Troi was often smarter than the men around her, and Kes managed to mix intelligence with innocence, a rare combo indeed.)

Then... trouble.

First came Seven of Nine and the Borg Queen, both of whom proceeded from the ridiculous assumption that a race of advanced cyborgs, who want to control the entire universe, want even MORE to start by assimilating your penis. Why do Borg even NEED mammaries, anyway? I didn't see a lot of breastfeeding going on in those incubation chambers. The worst part was watching Patrick Stewart trying like hell to sell the idea that the Queen was part of his Borg experience, but he FORGOT about her until meeting her for the second time, because, you know, getting his mind peeled like an onion wasn't nearly as TRAUMATIC as having this blotchy cleavagey corpse-girl fondle his shoulder. METAPHORICALLY fondle his shoulder.

"Hey," said some perverse genius, "Trek always has the character that's wondering what it's like to experience human emotions and stuff, right? Spock, Data, Odo, the Doctor? Let's do that again, but this time make the character a woman! We can have her get all weepy and PMSy, and best of all, we can make her have lotsa SEX! To start, let's make her a frigid ***** like those girls from high school with the tight sweaters who always ignored me!"

Or you can buy the official version from Jeri Ryan's boyfriend or husband or ****buddy or whatever. (Even the experts are not really sure.)

The same template is at work with T'Pol, but the ABUSE! God, the abuse! Just! Keeps! Pouring! Down! It's like a four-year-long episode of Fear Factor! She's been raped, tortured, driven out of her mind at LEAST three times, infected with AIDS, practically shat upon by her own people, and turned into a crack whore. She's been paired off with Archer and Trip on an apparently rotating schedule. And best of all, looks like her loss of emotional control is permanent. Supers.

Conceded, EVERY character has to suffer some in order to be interesting, but they also have to get some cool moments of karmic payback, or else they just look like perpetual victims. My memory for Trek isn't as photographic as it used to be, but I challenge ANYONE to come up with five cool moments for T'Pol. And bits where Captain Archer rewards her with a tight smile and a temporary suspension of grumping don't count.

I've heard rumors that there's another female character on the show named "Hoshi," but I can produce no concrete evidence... oh, wait, that kinda good "Beauty and the Beast" episode? Oh, her. The one without cleavage. Right. Does anybody know what... uh... "Hoshi's" personality is supposed to be, now? Anybody?

Hey, I'll ogle a nice pair as much as the next guy, but if that's all I'm after, well, leafing through FHM is a much more efficient way to get it. And I respect the women in there more.

Last week was the last straw for me. I'm off Trek now. I've been impressed with some of their ideas for this season, but I can no longer ignore this grimy feeling I get while watching.

(It doesn't help that I still remember the viewer poll declaring T'Pol's rape the best episode of the first season. There are powerful and tasteful stories to be told about rape, but that wasn't one of 'em...)

http://www.faans.com/ (the blog section)

[Saint Marcus]

does sex and the city hate women? After all, one of the characters is protrait as someone who can't get enough of sex, whose (fully naked) boobs have featured in several episodes, and who simply is a complete whore.

...

That same actress was in ST too.

[The Mad Monk]

I wouldn't know -- I don't watch TV.

[GePap]

On why the war happens in B5- I think the best part of the arc is the discovery that it isn't a war of good vs evil, as you begin to think at first, with the Vorlons good and the Shadows bad-its an ideological war with two supoerpowers as it were manipulating proxies to further their own agenda. No one is good until Sheridan decides not to play the games, becuase notice, had Sheridan simply gotten his forces together and fought as a coolition without going to Zha Hadum, he would have simply being doing what the Vorlons wanted.

[Boris Godunov]

Buffy would kick all their asses.

[pchang]

IRL

I met "Buffy" before she got her tv role. She is very petite.

[Boris Godunov]

Yeah, I've met Seth Green IRL, and he's about the same size as she is. TV is populated by midgets.

[Kropotkin]

TV is populated by midgets.

They're not midgets, they're Oompa-Loompas. The recent decade or so has seen some serious cut backs at the Wonka Chocolate Factory as Mr. W. Wonka and senior vice president Charlie's been going for a more capital-intensive mode of production. The Oompla-Loompas are using the contacts they got during the filming at the plant a number of decades ago in order to find new jobs.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Yeah, I've met Seth Green IRL, and he's about the same size as she is. TV is populated by midgets.

I've met Seth, James Marsters (Spike), Iyari Limon (Kennedy - she played with Sophie for 15 minutes), Nicholas Brandon (Xander), the guy who plays Clem, and a few others. Yes, Laura and Sophie met them too... Sophie has the only Barney doll in existence signed by James Marsters, I believe.

However, to get in some BIG names, I have an autographed copy of Bruce Campbells autobiography If Chins Could Kill.

Yes, Sophie has met him too.