Vege

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by General Ludd


For the same reason I don't think we should kill, torture, or consume humans. It's unethical.

I thought I already covered that...

Why do you think it is unethical to kill, torture, and consume humans?

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Well, the cites come from here:

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/veg_definition.htm

What's a Vegetarian?



Now I'm sure that people will complain that the site is biased, but it is cited work.

Can you produce any evidence that a diet including meat is necessarily going to be better than one without meat?

Would the fact that a low-fat vegetarian diet is healthier than a low-fat diet including meat convince you of the "logic" of being vegetarian in one regard? Or are you going to make a further qualification that only unhealthy vegetarian diets need be deemed illogical?

Bah. I probably did overstep my boundaries, hence the need for qualification. I'm not going to try to argue this with you as I don't really have the data available to back up what I say.

But I will continue to argue with General Ludd over there, because he's a vegetarian for ethical reasons, and that's where all the inconsistencies show up.

[Az]

Ludd, that's BS, and you know it. There is nothing inconsistent about being a "speciest" or whatever it's being called these days. I care only for our species, as a group.

Personally, I am omnivorous. My favourite general combination is the good old Meat+Salad+vegicarbohydrates for dinner, Eggs, bread and Yogurt for breakfast, and bread and yougurt for supper, and fruit all day long.

My personal experience is that the less meat I eat, the more weight I gain.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

Given that species borders have more grounding in biological reality than to kingdom ones, why is making an exclusion for humans more illogical than making on for animals?

(I'm assuming you have no moral issues with eating plants, fungus or bacteria.)

How is equating humans to potatos, instead of other animals, logical?


That said, I do follow the belief "all life is sacred" in a sense. I don't think we should squander plant life, either. Which is all the more reason to be vegetarian. Is it not better to kill only the plants on your plate instead of the (many times more) plants it takes to raise an animal? (along with the animal itself)

I'm not making an exclusion of animals. I'm making an inclusion of humans.

[Az]

That said, I do follow the belief "all life is sacred" in a sense. I don't think we should squander plant life, either. Which is all the more reason to be vegetarian. Is it not better to kill only the plants on your plate instead of the (many times more) plants it takes to raise an animal? (along with the animal itself)

You could synthesize your own food, butcher.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by General Ludd

That said, I do follow the belief "all life is sacred" in a sense.

Why is all life sacred?

Is it not better to kill only the plants on your plate instead of the (many times more) plants it takes to raise an animal? (along with the animal itself)

You are utilitarian, then. Okay.

In that case, is it not better to kill off all forms of life that consume other forms of life, and leave behind only those things that take energy from the sun, or from undersea volcanoes, etc...?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

There is abundant evidence that vegetarian diets are more healthful than the average American diet, especially for preventing, treating or reversing heart disease and reducing the risk of cancer.

AHA!

The purest Omnivore diest come from places like China, Mexico, or even french diets. American diests are NOT that omnivorous- too much emphasis on red meat and processed flours.

Maybe you can show the superiority of the Vegitarian diet over the Carnivorous diet, but Omnivores RULE!

[Japher]

Even with an emphasis it doesn't mean lack there of.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Azazel

That said, I do follow the belief "all life is sacred" in a sense. I don't think we should squander plant life, either. Which is all the more reason to be vegetarian. Is it not better to kill only the plants on your plate instead of the (many times more) plants it takes to raise an animal? (along with the animal itself)

You could synthesize your own food, butcher.

Not good enough; still killing the bacteria inside him. Evil immune system.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Japher
Even with an emphasis it doesn't mean lack there of.

American consume way too few fruits and vegetables in their average diet-and far more red meat than in other diets. The French, Chinese or Mexican diest have a much greater balance-and hence closer to the omnivore ideal.

[Az]

Originally posted by Lorizael


Not good enough; still killing the bacteria inside him. Evil immune system.

How about living in a sterile enviroment, with synthetic stuff replacing his natural intestinal fauna?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Azazel
Ludd, that's BS, and you know it. There is nothing inconsistent about being a "speciest" or whatever it's being called these days. I care only for our species, as a group.

As I said, it's only inconsistent if you hold somewhat liberal views. Mainly because it's the same line of reasoning that every oppresor uses - that you can create arbitrary definitions to support your own superiority. Blacks are below humans and women are not equal, therefor they exist to serve our needs.

I think it's also worth noting that all cases of inter-human oppresion involve equations between the opressed victims and other animals, specifically those that we eat or have domesticated.

Why do you think it is unethical to kill, torture, and consume humans?

As I said before, if you hold no ethics then you are excluded.

(although perhaps I didn't express that as clearly as I should of before... what is a good term for someone devoid of ethics? I always use the term 'fascist' for that purpose )

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Lorizael


Why do you think it is unethical to kill, torture, and consume humans?

the Human body is mostly not for eating.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by General Ludd



How is equating humans to potatos, instead of other animals, logical?


That said, I do follow the belief "all life is sacred" in a sense. I don't think we should squander plant life, either. Which is all the more reason to be vegetarian. Is it not better to kill only the plants on your plate instead of the (many times more) plants it takes to raise an animal? (along with the animal itself)

I'm not making an exclusion of animals. I'm making an inclusion of humans.

you should only eat fruits if thats your view. Those were designed to be eaten.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Whoha


the Human body is mostly not for eating.

That was not the case in the movie, Jurrasic Park.