Heterosexuality and the heterosexual lifestyle.

[Pekka]

Simple. I don't want to touch another penis than mine (I like to touch that one!) and I saw Britney Spears - Oops I did it again music video. I'd say easy choice hands down.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Pekka
Simple. I don't want to touch another penis than mine (I like to touch that one!) and I saw Britney Spears - Oops I did it again music video. I'd say easy choice hands down.

"hands down" =

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Are humans the only animals that can be Gay?
I've not noticed any Gay dogs or cats, for instance.

Some years back mindseye made the following brilliant post, which I've saved and used many times since.

In several recent threads I've cited the abundance of homosexual behavior in the animal world, and have promised a thread with plenty of examples. My source is the wonderful book Biological Exuberance by Bruce Bagemihl, PhD (St. Martins Press, 1999).
The author, a biologist and researcher, (and incidentally a married heterosexual with children), has compiled a massive compendium of documented observations of homosexual behavior in animals, concentrating on mammals. The book is thoroughly documented, and encyclopedic in nature - the section detailing behavior by species is about 400 pages long. Plenty of fascinating photos and drawings are included in this terrific book.
The author also discusses the difficulties and obstacles he encountered, and biologists' traditional aversion to the topic. Typically, same-gender sexual activity has been disregarded, or written off as "greetings" or domineering activity to establish social pecking order, even when the behavior is clearly welcomed or even initiated by the less dominant individual.
Anyway , there's enough subject matter here for several topics, so let's get down to examples! I will be paraphrasing and summarizing to an extreme degree, the book provides vast amounts of data. All quotes are from the book. I've tried to select examples that give an idea of the variety of behaviors and animals involved. Keep in mind that this long list represents a fraction of the animals discussed in the book.
The point of this posting is to debunk the notion that homosexual sex is "unnatural" or "contrary to nature", and to ask why should we expect humans to be so different?

Ming, apologies in advance, I till try to keep this from being overly explicit, although that may not be easy given the subject matter!

- mindseye


--------------------------------------------------
Giraffes - Males have a graceful and erotic ritual they only perform with other males, usually as a prelude to sex. It starts out with an intertwining of necks, and usually ends with intercourse.
Bottlenose Dophins - both males and females engage in affectionate and sexual activities with members of their own gender.This includes nuzzling, touching, stroking each other's geneitalia with fins or beaks, and intercourse between males. Activity is sometimes performed in groups. "The lives of male bottlenose dolphins are charcterized by extensive bisexuality combined with periods of exclusive homosexuality." Males sometimes form life-long pair bonds with other similar-aged males, becoming constant companions - the relationship usually includes sex. Male Bottlenose Dolphins ocassionally have sex with male Spotted Dolphins as well.
Bonobo (or Pygmy) Chimpanzees - Bonobos live in mixed-sex mixed-age communities of 60 or more chimps. Females are generally dominant to males. "Bonobos have one of the most varied and extensive repertoires of homosexual practices found in any animal." Females engage in a kind of genital-to-genital stimulation that is not found in any other speices, usually performed in a face-to-face embrace. "As shown by their facial expressions, vocalizations, and genital engorgement, females experience intense pleasure - and probably orgasm - during homosexual interactions. Partners gaze intensely into each other's eyes and maintain eye contact throughout the interaction." Both males and females engage in manual stimulation, oral sex, and intercourse in a wide variety of positions. About half of all sexual activity is homosexual. "Bonobos have developed an extraordinary system of gestural communication that is used specifically for sex. A 'lexicon' of about a dozen hand and arm gestures - each with a specific meaning - is utilized by Bonobos to initiate sexual activity and negotiate various body positions with a partner (of the same or opposite sex)." The gestures have meanings such as "turn your body around", "spread your legs" "stand up", and raise the interesting proposition that human language evolved from similar beginnings...!
Black Swans - Black swans usually form mated pairs, with about 5% - 6% of males forming stable, long-lasting homosexual relationships, often many years in duration. These males engage in courtship behavior and sexual activity together. Male pairs raise chicks, either by inviting a female to mate and lay eggs in their nest (and then chasing her away), or by taking over a heterosexual couple's nest. Male pairs are usually more successful parents than hetero pairs because their combined strength often provides them with the best nesting areas,and also because they share incubation duties more equally. Approxiamtely 80% of male homosexual swans are successful at raising chicks compared to about 30% success rate among "straight" pairs.
Killer Whales - Orcas live in pods centered on a dominant female. During summer and fall, when pods come together to feast on salmon runs, "males of all ages often spend the afternoons in sessions of courtship, affectionate and sexual behaviors with each other." Typically, they leave their pod and temporarily join another individual male, or sometimes gather in a small group. They roll around each other, splashing, touching, nudging, and engaging in "oral" (beak-genital) stimulation, usually trading positions. Sometimes they have special partners they interact with year after year.
Manatees - Male manatees of all ages regularly engage in intense homosexual activities involving mutual masturbation, kissing, and mutual oral stimulation ("sixty-nining"). These couplings are very different from heterosxual ones, and usually last much longer per session. Sometimes a group of males will have sex together for hours.
Marmots - Females engage in same-sex mounting, usually after affectionate behavior such as nuzzling or nibbling. Female-female sexual activity is quite common among marmots, and may in fact outnumber female-male mounting.
Walruses - "In the shallow waters off the coast of the summer haul-out grounds, male walruses engage in homosexual courtship, sexual and affectionate activities. Pairs of males - sometimes as many as 50 animals at a time (...) rub their bodies against one another, clasp and embrace each other with their front flippers, touch noses, and loll together." Specal courtship "songs" are vocalized. Sexual activity involves mutal stimulation using flippers, mounting, and intercourse.
Deer - Most male and female deer occasionally engage in same-gender mounting, usually after ritualized "foreplay".
Bighorn Sheep - Male Bighorn sheep are incredibly queer. Males usually live in male-only groups "where same-sex courtship and sexual activity occur among all rams". Males seem to be unable to get enough of each other, both giving and receiving oral sex and intercourse. In fact, females sometimes try to pass themselves off as young males in an attempt to get some action!
Musk Ox - Something like 10% of all adult sexual activity (male and female) is with the same gender.
American Bison - Among males, "homosexual mounting is more common the heterosexual mounting (...) since each female rarely mates with a male more than once a year, while each male may engage in same-sex mounting many times a day." Younger male bison are especially likely to engage in same-sex mounting. Often it is initiated by the "mountee", who will back into another male with legs spread and tail aside in invitation. Homosexual intercourse usually lasts twice as long as hetersexual, sometimes it is reciprocal. Groups of young males (4 or 5) will take turns mounting each other or the same individual. Among African Bison, female mounting also occurs.
Parrots - Male and female homosexual bonds are common, consisting of 33% to as much as 50% of pairings depending on species. Shared activities include sitting side-by-side, preening, nuzzling, feeding and mounting each other. Females build nests and incubate eggs together, male couples do not build nests. Parrots that form same-sex couples are usually exclusively homosexual.
Antelopes - Both males and females of all age groups sometimes engage in homosexual mounting. As with many herd animals, most males (2/3 to 3/4 of male antelopes) never mate with a female, and many of these males have homosexual sex lives. Even among males and females who mate heterosexually, about 10% of activity is homosexual.
Chimpanzees - Male and female chimps engage in a wide variety of homosexual sex including "sixty-nining"and intercourse, occasionally even messing with other species of monkeys. The frequency of same-gender sex varies quite a bit between individuals, from as little as negligible to exclusively homosexual. Much or most chimpanzee sexual activity is not geared towards procreation. In fact, females sometimes engage in a type of contraception - by simulating nursing through manual stimulation of their nipples, females can induce a contraceptive state to prevent pregnancy, sometimes doing so for years.
Elephants - Males commonly engage in homosexual mounting and other kinds of same-sex activity such as play fighting and trunk-genital stimulation. Female mutual masturbation has been observed in captivity, but has not yet been viewed in the wild. While there are no long-lasting heterosexual bonds among elephants, about 18% of males form "companionships" with other males, remaining constantly in each others company and engaging solely in homosexual sex.
Flamingos - Approximately 5% of flamingos (both male and female) form same-sex couples, remaining together sometimes from one breeding season to the next. Most pairings are monogamous, and couples spend most of their time with each other, including sleeping and sexual activity. Both male and female homosexual couples may engage in parenting (males gain eggs by taking over a nest). Males in parenting homosexual pairs are able to lactate.
Lions - Most lions appear to be bisexual, although some display a preference for one or the other gender. Female lions initiate homosexual activty by pursuing and then crawling under another female to encourage her to mount. Sometimes they take turns mounting each other, and while doing so exhibit behaviors associated with heterosexual activity (gentle neck biting, growling, pelvic thrusts). Males exhibit a great deal of affectionate behavior, including mutual head-rubbing (often accompanied by a low moaning), sliding or rubbing against each other, presenting hind quarters, or rolling on their back while displaying an erection. This can lead to intense caressing and eventual mounting. Sometimes three males engage in this activity, mounting each other in turn.
Grizzly Bears - Although grizzlies are typically solitary animals, sometimes females bond with each other and raise their young together as a family unit. These females spend most of their time with each other, and will even move their den in order to hibernate closer to their companion. The cubs regard both females as parents. Sexual activity between such paired females has not yet been observed.
Kangaroos - Pair-bonding sometimes develops between female Eastern Gray Kangaroos. Partners lick, nibble, and caress each other, using their paws to rake the fur on each others head and neck. These females also sometimes court and mount each other, although such female-female sexual activity can occur among non-bonded kangaroos as well. Interestingly, heterosexual pair-bonds are not found in this species. Among Red-necked Wallabies, females frequently mount each otherm, using a slightly different position than that used by males. Males occasionally will mount each other, usually during play-fighting. They also engage in affectionate activites such as mutual grooming, licking , touching, and embracing during these sessions.
Canadian Geese - Geese sometimes form partnerships that may last many years. Some of these pairings are homosexual (both male and female). Among Canadaian geese up to 12% of pairs may be homosexual. Lesbian couples rear families together.
Cheetahs - Males and females occasionally engage in same-sex mounting. Males often live in permanent partnerships of 2 or 3 cheetahs who become closely bonded with each other, probably for life, spending over 90% of their time in each other's company. Male pair-mates frequently groom each other, defend each other, and engage in sexual activity together. On rare occasions male pairs have been observed taking care of lost cubs (non-paired males never engage in child-rearing).

[Datajack Franit]

Of course! I am gay, and I chose to be part of the 2% population that wastes years and years trying to understand why the hell being different should be a good thing

[SlowwHand]

Interesting, Laz.
More useful by far than Sava's reflections on leg-humping.

[Solly]

I did not choose to be straight no, because it is the natural condition.

[Solly]

Do you really want to legitimise deviant forms of human behaviour by saying "well, other animals do it"?

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
Do you really want to legitimise deviant forms of human behaviour by saying "well, other animals do it"?

If there is any legitimate justification to labelling a form of human behavior as "deviant," e.g., if a form of human behavior is malicious or whatever, then no. However, if the only justification for labelling a form of human behavior as "deviant" is because it is "unnatural according to Bodds," then yes. If a form of behavior is common in nature, then it is natural, end of story.

[Solly]

Then murder is natural.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
Then murder is natural.

Do you have a reading deficiency, or are you just resorting to strawmen? Read my post again: "If there is any legitimate justification to labelling a form of human behavior as "deviant," e.g., if a form of human behavior is malicious or whatever, then no."

[Solly]

I read this loinburger, "If a form of behavior is common in nature, then it is natural, end of story."

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
I read this loinburger, "If a form of behavior is common in nature, then it is natural, end of story."

Then on what basis to you baldly assert that murder is natural by my definition of the term? How many animals unlawfully kill other animals with premeditated malice?

And how would would you propose that we distinguish between "natural" and "unnatural" besides through examining nature? Are you going to be the arbitrator on what is natural and unnatural?

[Solly]

And how would would you propose that we distinguish between "natural" and "unnatural" besides through examining nature? Are you going to be the arbitrator on what is natural and unnatural?

I think it ought to be quite obvious that a form of sexual orientation that is unconducive to repreduction is unnatural.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
I think it ought to be quite obvious that a form of sexual orientation that is unconducive to repreduction is unnatural.

And yet it is common in nature, which means that your bizarro definition of "natural" apparently has nothing whatsoever to do with anybody else's definition of the term. But you didn't answer my question -- how do you propose that we distinguish between "natural" and "unnatural" besides through examining nature? You apparently believe that you define what is natural and unnatural, but forgive me if I bust a gut laughing at your delusions of grandeur.

[Solly]

how do you propose that we distinguish between "natural" and "unnatural" besides through examining nature?

By being pragmatic.

And anyway, natural is not always synonomous with "good".