How do you raise a child to be a Good Communist?

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The point isn't that humans are naturally inclined towards capitalism or communism (though if one were to make that argument, surely the fact that we've only been capitalist for the last few hundred years, while for about three million we were communist would show what we are "naturally"). What we argue is that humans are by nature, social creatures, and that we make our societies and our relations with each other. Thus, we are as naturally communist as we are capitalist.

Birdseed is very correct to point out that the two-year old child is not a model of ideal human relations, in any society.

bingo.

JohnT, you seem quite insistant on the fact that nothing you did has fostered these feelings in Sophie. While I do not personally know exactly how Sophie was raised, I would contend that at one point in time you did put the idea of exclusive ownership into her head, and at that time it might have seemed unfair to her. for example, she went to go play with your laptop, and you may have scolded her and told her that was daddy's, and she mustn't touch it. You may have even given her a avlid reason for it, but she would most likely not comprehend it as valid, and just think you were keeping things from her.

In this case, she would be mimicking behavior she noticed in you. Finding something, and claiming it yours, making seemingly unfair claims to it's ownership.

I seriously doubt that this thread is actually looking for quality advice and ideas about raising socialist children, so i won't waste my time.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Birdseed is very correct to point out that the two-year old child is not a model of ideal human relations, in any society.

The point that will continue to be made is that given certain level of stress man will revert back to his child. In this case a greedy wanting child. (No offense to Sophie intended).

Other levels of learnings (i.e. social indoctrination) supress this base nature to the point that man can see the mutual benefit of altruistic behavior. Do we see this all the time during stressful times, no but the tendency and base desires do exist. To deny their existance is to deny a prime motivator of man. To continue to deny their existance allows folks to demonize others as unnatural and immoral. (see below)

Does man wish to be a social creature, yes. For what reason? To feel good about himself and his own sense of self image in todays terms, in previous prehistory to help chances of survival.

Is competition a foreign concept to man? No. Lord knows we have any number of debaters here who feel the need to prove themselves and win a debate. Why? See above.

Thus, the out of self interest people go out of there way to crush someone else. Its called feeling better about themselves by being so-called better than someone else. Describes a whole host of repugnant human behaviors from religious crusades to racism.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The history of humans for >99% if their existance, is nothing like you assume 'human nature' to be.

A majority of human existance has been under some form of dictatorship. So I think the point about human nature stands.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kucinich




Our current situation isn't an "anomaly"

Then why is it the first and only time it has happened in the history of the universe (as we know it)?


EDIT: Oh, are you a creationist?

[Inverse Icarus]

Re: Re: How do you raise a child to be a Good Communist?

Originally posted by Kidicious
And my answer to your question about raising good communists is to create a children's show staring commie kittens.

VICTORY FOR THE *meow* PROLETARIAT!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
The point that will continue to be made is that given certain level of stress man will revert back to his child. In this case a greedy wanting child. (No offense to Sophie intended).

You seem to be agreeing that man will function normally as long as he can get what he needs and wants from society, and that he will only exhibit anti-social behavior when society is not providing for his needs. I'm I right?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Tp an extent yes. But mans needs are such that they never are completely fulfilled. Hence my point re: his need to have high self esteem. In many cases, that is derived from his sense of competition and doing well at the expense of others.

All one needs do is look at the amount of I win, you lose posts on this board to see that.

[chequita guevara]

Re: Re: Re: How do you raise a child to be a Good Communist?

Originally posted by Uber KruX


VICTORY FOR THE *meow* PROLETARIAT!

Just call me Chairman Meow.

[Nubclear]

Who the **** cares if its natural or not?
If it is: Yay.
If its not: Then let us, as human beings, use our higher brain functions to surpress our natural tendenciesand embrace something thats a little more advanced.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
In this case a greedy wanting child. (No offense to Sophie intended).

I should point out that this is the same child that saw a baby in distress and without any prompting went over to comfort it.

To deny their existance is to deny a prime motivator of man. To continue to deny their existance allows folks to demonize others as unnatural and immoral. (see below)

No one is denying the existence, but to point at one aspect of human nature and say this is the sole or prime motivator among the myriad of human reason and emotions is faulty thinking.

Does man wish to be a social creature, yes. For what reason?

It is not a matter or whether we wish it or not. We are not snakes or bears or other solitary creatures who occassionally bump into other humans. Our mode of existnece is based upon our interaction with other humans. We are a cooperative species innately. Without others of our kind, our mind becomes ill. Solitary confinement is one of the worst punishments tere is, and being alone is one of our greatest fears. On top of that, cooperation is necessary for survival.

The question isn't are we competitve or cooperative. We are clearly both. The problem of capitalism is that it exagerates one aspect of our nature, the competitive part, at the expense of our other nature, which is to join together and form groups. The problem with Stalinism is that it tried to crush the indivdual aspect of our natures and force everyone to be a group. The point, rather, is to create a society which allows for the maximize both our indivudal and cooperative aspects.

When you look at Marx's writings, it is clear he doesn't advocate a society where we are like bees or cogs in a machine. He wants to create a society where every person is able to develop all aspects of themselves to the utmost. But capitalism requires min-maxing (to use game terms). This is most efficient in a society that is geared towards winning. But it makes for being a very poor and anti-social human being otherwise.

[Agathon]

As an answer to the first question. If you raise your child to be a moral person and you succeed, he/she will automatically become a communist.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Agathon
As an answer to the first question. If you raise your child to be a moral person and you succeed, he/she will automatically become a communist.

No, that is capitalism.

Thank goodness communism collapsed in 1991.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Agathon
As an answer to the first question. If you raise your child to be a moral person and you succeed, he/she will automatically become a communist.

Odd, that's not what happened in your case.

Uber, where have I been quite insistent about anything? I only mentioned Sophie once, and have yet to follow up with a single on-topic remark that has any semblence to the issues raised in my own OP!

[Agathon]

I've grown tired of being polite. The political right are simply immoral. They pretend they aren't, and hide behind arrguments about economic means, but they are, wittingly or no, at odds with basic human decency.

Not that they care.

[JohnT]

Pot to kettle: "Hey, you're black!"