How do you raise a child to be a Good Communist?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon
Of course it does. If you don't honour your contracts or pay your debts men with guns will turn up to your house and compel you to do so.

All tenable political systems rest on the threat of force.

There's a difference between that and "being nice", i.e. sharing and working for the good of everyone.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Asher

Own goal indeed -- your assertion said capitalists, not specifically market fundamentalists, and I would argue that not all capitalists assert that people acting selfishly makes everyone better off.

Markets work (when they do) because each person's attempt to better his own holdings of capital result in him producing goods which other people want. The fact that others do the same results in competition and lower prices and (supposedly) results in the optimal level of production of that particular kind of good. It's called the "Invisible hand". Markets generally rely on selfishness.

A capitalist who is not committed to lassez faire is to that degree not a capitalist.

You're just a commie because you know without a large, monolithic government paying your rent, no one else will.

My wife.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Markets generally rely on selfishness.

Hopefully you realize the difference between selfishness and self-interest?

[Agathon]

Yes, one is spelled differently than the other.

It doesn't matter, markets require us to forgo our natural altruism in order to work properly. If we don't do that, then prices will not be set at the optimal rate.

[Imran Siddiqui]

markets require us to forgo our natural altruism in order to work properly.

Natural altruism is forgone? No capitalist, except the really wacko ones say that charity is off limits. The problem is those that believe everyone wants to be altruistic all the time.

[Fake Boris]

Well, my answer would be that children go trough morality stages. They start with very basic rules that you have to teach them no matter what (don't steal, don't use violence, share) and learn to think about them much later.

[Fake Boris]

Sophie is stupid. Throw rocks at her.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

markets require us to forgo our natural altruism in order to work properly.

Natural altruism is forgone? No capitalist, except the really wacko ones say that charity is off limits. The problem is those that believe everyone wants to be altruistic all the time.

Some of the more radical ones do.

None of this changes the fact that when you are a buyer you want the lowest possible price, and when you are a seller the opposite. If you don't insist on that, the market won't work. Markets require us to suppress our natural altruism - that is hard to do - look at the problems traditional native societies have had moving to a market system.

All I'm saying is that JohnT's assertion is not supported by the facts. Capitalism is not natural to us - it's a sophisticated social institution that needs to inculcate certain beliefs and attitudes into people in order to work - dispositions which are at odds with our natural altruism.

[chequita guevara]

The point isn't that humans are naturally inclined towards capitalism or communism (though if one were to make that argument, surely the fact that we've only been capitalist for the last few hundred years, while for about three million we were communist would show what we are "naturally"). What we argue is that humans are by nature, social creatures, and that we make our societies and our relations with each other. Thus, we are as naturally communist as we are capitalist.

Birdseed is very correct to point out that the two-year old child is not a model of ideal human relations, in any society.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Markets require us to suppress our natural altruism

And is a channel for our natural greed, so it doesn't overwhelm.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Markets require us to suppress our natural altruism

And is a channel for our natural greed, so it doesn't overwhelm.

What kind of natural greed will make a person goes out and crush everybody else who opposes him?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
What kind of natural greed will make a person goes out and crush everybody else who opposes him?

Are you talking about communist revolutions?

Or Che?

Or maybe even Castro?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The point isn't that humans are naturally inclined towards capitalism or communism (though if one were to make that argument, surely the fact that we've only been capitalist for the last few hundred years, while for about three million we were communist would show what we are "naturally"). What we argue is that humans are by nature, social creatures, and that we make our societies and our relations with each other. Thus, we are as naturally communist as we are capitalist.

Birdseed is very correct to point out that the two-year old child is not a model of ideal human relations, in any society.

Yes. I'm surprised how manny people seem to ignore Marx' insistence that economic reality is largely the cause of our view of human nature rather than the other way around.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What kind of natural greed will make a person goes out and crush everybody else who opposes him?

You ever read history? That seems to be the normal state of things.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

What kind of natural greed will make a person goes out and crush everybody else who opposes him?

You ever read history? That seems to be the normal state of things.

Only natural to lawyers