Terrorists claim victory in Spain

[joncha]

Tass:

I guess I should try harder... now where can I post pics without spamming? Ah, yes... the desktop thread!

back OT:

The point of al Qaeda's brand of terrorism is to cause a reaction and provoke an open war between the West and Islam (as opposed to the one-sided, "dirty" war they believe has been waged against them up to now). They have been successful in this in the past, through attacks on the USA and Russia. In Spain they failed.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Thats what Al Qaeda wants really: For the US to lose its power, and for the west to become fragmented with disunity.

Isn't that what you want?

[Fake Boris]

OliverFA, that document is overwhelmingly too good to be true. You think Al-Qaeda would post its plans on a discussion board?

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor
You'd better get used to it, Yaroslav.

Americans have the annoying tendency to call "cowards" pretty much anybody who doesn't feel like fighting their war.

its not so malevolent as u think. this involves all of us. yet most of us just feel like talking. why don't u pass a resolution asking the US to stop calling u cowards?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by OliverFA
Al-Qaeda 1 - Spanish democracy 0

Actually, um, the vote proves that the Spanish democracy still lives In fact, what was undemocratic was that the government took an action against the a supermajority of people on a major issue (war).

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by OliverFA
Al-Qaeda 1 - Spanish democracy 0

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europ...0700/index.html

Your quoted article said that 90% of Spaniards were opposed to Spanish troops being sent to Iraq.

The P.S.O.E. were the party most likely to withdraw those troops, if they were elected.

Following the murders in Madrid, you therefore want the Spanish who were going to vote P.S.O.E. for reasons of conscience or politics, to vote for the Conservatives instead.

How that would not be a victory for terrorism, I'm not sure.

The thinking in some posts in this and other threads about the bombings resembles what Colin Wilson describes as 'magical thinking'- the harnessing together of two separate facts or events by wishful thinking or dream logic, and the assumption or production of an outcome based on that linkage.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
No, such idiots need to realize that the terrorists are WINNING, as indicated by the USAmericans so deseperately trying to distance themselves away from their allies.

I don't think they are desperately trying to distance themselves.

Thats what Al Qaeda wants really: For the US to lose its power, and for the west to become fragmented with disunity.

No one knows what France wants, no one knows what America wants, and I doubt that we can know for sure what it is that Al-Qaeda wants.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Isn't that what you want?

No.
Only of the US.
What I really want though is for the US to become an intelligent nation and make rational decisions. Then western rule could be good

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by yaroslav
That is your pratiotism, Oliver? When your party lost the goverment, you abandon our flag...

I´m not a patriot. I´ve never been. What´s a country? Some quantity of land inside some borders. Should you feel proud just because you have been born at some place? Of course not. The important thing are the ideas. Past week the Spanish flag represented some ideas. This week represents the opposite ones. Consequently, I don´t feel represented by that flag. It would be stupid to feel loyal to a country that has changed completely its point of view. I can feel loyal to a friend, but I can only feel loyal to a group (is it a company, a country or a party) as long as this groups reminds loyal to my ideas. That´s all.

I could ask you the same. Why were you using a white avatar with the black lace instead of the Spanish flag? Of course that´s because you didn´t feel represented by that flag.

[yaroslav]

Oliver, I retire my statement. I believed that you stated elsewhere that you were a pratiot, anti-nationalist guy (not it means that all anti-nationalist are pratiots and the other way).

But I dissagree about

important thing are the ideas. Past week the Spanish flag represented some ideas. This week represents the opposite ones. Consequently, I don´t feel represented by that flag. It would be stupid to feel loyal to a country that has changed completely its point of view.

becuase I don't see that there has been such a huge change. PSOE is in a economic way a lot like the PP, and it's only moderately pro-autonomy, when the PP was a little more centralist.

It's in the foreign politics where they differ more... and of couse, in style.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
And what were the "real" aims: Oil? Bush wanted the Oil? Is that it?

I made a long case some moths ago, stating the many reasons that, combined, made the attack on Iraq wishable for the admin.
War on Terror was one of these elements, in that making Iraq a nice oil-producing poodle would allow to pressure Saudi Arabia (so, a very indirect relationship with terrorism, but an existing one nonetheless).

Bottom line was however that Bush didn't tolerate the cracks in the "new world order", and decided to whack a harmless and loathable regime to impress all those who'd want to play smartass with him.

In short, real reasons = power politics.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
OliverFA, that document is overwhelmingly too good to be true. You think Al-Qaeda would post its plans on a discussion board?

Sooooooooooooooooo nice! When a document, or a poll, or anything, agrees with your positions then you believe it. When a media like CNN, which is much more left than right, goes against them, it´s "too good to be true"

Sure, wathever

[Fake Boris]

How in freaking hell would you demonstrate the authenticity of AN INTERNET POST?

Actually, if they COULD- then why don't they go and arrest the guy, if he truly was involved in the bombings?

I need something more serious than this. Common sense would usually say that terrorism benefits the right, not the left.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Following the murders in Madrid, you therefore want the Spanish who were going to vote P.S.O.E. for reasons of conscience or politics, to vote for the Conservatives instead.

I want them to vote what they want. My opinion is that they should vote right (remember, PP has both family of rights, liberal and conservative) but if they want to vote PSOE... well... Spain has what it deserves.

How that would not be a victory for terrorism, I'm not sure.

Easy, because the results would have been the same than without the terrorist acts.

The thinking in some posts in this and other threads about the bombings resembles what Colin Wilson describes as 'magical thinking'- the harnessing together of two separate facts or events by wishful thinking or dream logic, and the assumption or production of an outcome based on that linkage.

Or what USSR used to manipulate during 70 years: Say a lie one hundred times and it will become true.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by yaroslav
Oliver, I retire my statement. I believed that you stated elsewhere that you were a pratiot, anti-nationalist guy (not it means that all anti-nationalist are pratiots and the other way).

Thanks. It´s good to see someone who defends its positions in a moderate way between so much radical people here.

becuase I don't see that there has been such a huge change. PSOE is in a economic way a lot like the PP, and it's only moderately pro-autonomy, when the PP was a little more centralist.

It's in the foreign politics where they differ more... and of couse, in style.

Well... you are right. We disagree about that. And time will tell who is right.