Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Terrorists claim victory in Spain

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Care to refute my explanation as to how it was not?


    What explanation? You gave some BS spiel about how Iraq has nothing to do with Al Qaeda, which obviously isn't true since Al Qaeda targetted Spain because of its involvement in Iraq.

    You did nothing to show how Al Qaeda's accomplishment of its (seemingly) stated goals in bombing Spain was not a victory. Simply calling things "absurd" or "inane" does not prove your point.
    KH FOR OWNER!
    ASHER FOR CEO!!
    GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ramo
      Which actions? He's not in power yet.
      True enough, but I don't think al-Qaeda is too worried about the new Spanish govt getting in their way.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

      Comment


      • What explanation? You gave some BS spiel about how Iraq has nothing to do with Al Qaeda, which obviously isn't true since Al Qaeda targetted Spain because of its involvement in Iraq.
        That's semantic nonsense. The point remains that going after Iraq had absolutley nothing to do with fighting al-Qaeda. That al-Qaeda is now bombing countries occupying Iraq is incidental.

        As for what al-Qaeda wanted from the bombing, it could be argued that it was meant to ensure a right-wing gov't in Spain. After all, look at the results from 9/11. Look at another ally in Iraq, Australia, which was affected by the Bali bombing.

        You did nothing to show how Al Qaeda's accomplishment of its (seemingly) stated goals in bombing Spain was not a victory. Simply calling things "absurd" or "inane" does not prove your point.
        Spanish resources spent occupying Iraq would be directed at al-Qaeda. Probably even more than that. Pretty simple, really.
        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

        Comment


        • Here's a weird bit of news: France has been threatened with a terrorist attack, but by a group named after the deceased leader of the Chechen attack on a Moscow opera house. It doesn't make sense does it? Are we in for a year long halloween?
          "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

          Comment


          • True enough, but I don't think al-Qaeda is too worried about the new Spanish govt getting in their way.
            I don't know why you say that. Zapatero has said he'd start to go ("tomorrow," forgot when he made the speech) around European countries getting them to committ more resources to fight al-Qaeda.
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

            Comment


            • That al-Qaeda is now bombing countries occupying Iraq is incidental.




              Iraq and Al Qaeda may not have been linked before, but they are now. You better wake up to that fact.

              As for what al-Qaeda wanted from the bombing, it could be argued that it was meant to ensure a right-wing gov't in Spain.


              Except that there's a CNN article (linked to twice in this very thread!) that seems to indicate that Al Qaeda intended to bring down Aznar's government with the bombing.

              Spanish resources spent occupying Iraq would be directed at al-Qaeda. Probably even more than that. Pretty simple, really.


              This does nothing to deal with the point at hand. That point, simply put is...

              1. Al Qaeda bombs Spain in an attempt to bring down Aznar's government and end Spanish support of the US in Iraq.

              2. After the bombing, Aznar's government falls and the new Socialist government announces that it will end support for the US in Iraq.

              How is this anything other than a clear-cut victory for Al Qaeda? Do you have a real explanation, or are you just going to keep avoiding the issue?
              KH FOR OWNER!
              ASHER FOR CEO!!
              GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ramo


                I don't know why you say that. Zapatero has said he'd start to go ("tomorrow," forgot when he made the speech) around European countries getting them to committ more resources to fight al-Qaeda.
                The resources are not really my point. The message coming from Zapatero is "don't target us anymore and we won't go after you." They can use more resources to defend their homeland and still send that message.
                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                  2. After the bombing, Aznar's government falls and the new Socialist government announces that it will end support for the US in Iraq.
                  Aznar was out no matter what. The new PP leader was expected to reduce Spain's role in Iraq anyway. However, it was not AQ that brought down the PP government, but the PP government's lying and ineptness that brought down the PP government.

                  Stop trying to hand AQ a victory. People like you are helping the terrorists win.
                  Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                  Comment


                  • Aznar was out no matter what.


                    That's not what the pre-election polls indicate.
                    KH FOR OWNER!
                    ASHER FOR CEO!!
                    GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

                    Comment


                    • Iraq and Al Qaeda may not have been linked before, but they are now. You better wake up to that fact.
                      at ya too.

                      That has nothing to do with the point I was making.

                      Except that there's a CNN article (linked to twice in this very thread!) that seems to indicate that Al Qaeda intended to bring down Aznar's government with the bombing.
                      Fair enough.

                      This does nothing to deal with the point at hand.
                      It has everything to do with the point at hand. Al-Qaeda will face far more pressure on the part of Spain, and to a lesser extent other areas of Europe.

                      That al-Qaeda may have gotten what it wanted in terms of Spain's actions in Iraq doesn't make it a victory. We've withdrawn from Saudi Arabia since 9/11 (which was al-Qaeda's strongest objection to our policies), that doesn't make it a victory for al-Qaeda.

                      The resources are not really my point. The message coming from Zapatero is "don't target us anymore and we won't go after you." They can use more resources to defend their homeland and still send that message.
                      That's not the message. The populace was by far on PSOE's side in terms of foreign policy (and the whole lying thing on the part of Aznar). The bombing just brought foreign policy to the forefront of the election, and economic issues to the backburner. Al-Qaeda gets screwed because of this, that ain't a victory.
                      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                      -Bokonon

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                        Aznar was out no matter what.


                        That's not what the pre-election polls indicate.
                        So? It's not what most of the exit polls indicated either.
                        ~ If Tehben spits eggs at you, jump on them and throw them back. ~ Eventis ~ Eventis Dungeons & Dragons 6th Age Campaign: Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4: (Unspeakable) Horror on the Hill ~

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                          Aznar was out no matter what.


                          That's not what the pre-election polls indicate.
                          Aznar wasn't running for re-election. His successor was, and he was more moderate than Aznar.

                          Anyway, polls are norotiously inaccurate. Or do you think the Repugs stole Georgia from Max Clelend?
                          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by chegitz guevara


                            Aznar was out no matter what. The new PP leader was expected to reduce Spain's role in Iraq anyway. However, it was not AQ that brought down the PP government, but the PP government's lying and ineptness that brought down the PP government.

                            Stop trying to hand AQ a victory. People like you are helping the terrorists win.
                            Are you saying that Aznar would have been out anyway before the bombing, or after the Spanish people found out that he lied? Aznar was the favorite before the bombing wasn't he?
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                            Comment


                            • It has everything to do with the point at hand. Al-Qaeda will face far more pressure on the part of Spain, and to a lesser extent other areas of Europe.


                              How, exactly? It seems to me that Spain is just going to shore up its homeland security and hunker down, hoping Al Qaeda won't bother with them now that they aren't supporting America. Such a response does nothing to place more pressure on Al Qaeda and certainly doesn't have the potential to harm Al Qaeda that a democratic Iraq does.
                              KH FOR OWNER!
                              ASHER FOR CEO!!
                              GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ramo
                                That's not the message. The populace was by far on PSOE's side in terms of foreign policy (and the whole lying thing on the part of Aznar). The bombing just brought foreign policy to the forefront of the election, and economic issues to the backburner. Al-Qaeda gets screwed because of this, that ain't a victory.
                                You have just implicitly stated that al-qaeda caused the election results.
                                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X