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No, I'm saying Saudi is the loser for not getting their act together. It's a tactical victory for Al-Queda, because they acheive one of their stated goals, but it's bad for them strategically, because it allows us to work more directly against Al-Queda and Saudi.
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And this was a strategic loss because it substantially increases Spain's in particular and Europe's in general resolve to destroy al-Qaeda."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon -
This was a change of government that occured because foreign policy was brought to the forefront of the election. If the populace was for the war in Iraq, then a terror attack would increase their resolve to fight. Whining about about the terrorists winning is inane.We also waited a while after 9/11 to withdraw our troops from Saudi, so it's hard for Al Qaeda to claim victory in that case. We obviously pulled out our troops of our own accord, not in response to Al Qaeda attacks."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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You have to read between the lines. The PP was ahead in the polls. Then there was the bombing, and then the Socialist party won. That means that some voters changed their minds. Now it is likely that Zapatero will not do anything to risk having another terrorist attack happening to Spain. That means making the appearance of having Spain's tail between it's legs. As I said earlier, al-Qaeda is not exactly shaking in it's boots about Zapatero's little speech aimed at stopping them.Originally posted by Ramo
Why do you believe that al-Qaeda has broken Spain's political will to bring them to justice?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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The Saudis wanted us to leave because Al Qaeda was hitting the Saudis because of our presence. We moved much of what we had to Bahrain and later into Iraq.We obviously pulled out our troops of our own accord, not in response to Al Qaeda attacks.Comment
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This was a change of government that occured because foreign policy was brought to the forefront of the election.
... by a terrorist bombing. Al Qaeda blows up a few trains, changes the focus of the election and gets exactly what they wanted. ****ing brilliant, in a completely evil kinda way...KH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!Comment
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Exactly, so it was the Saudi's who appeased the terrorists, not us.Originally posted by Berzerker
The Saudis wanted us to leave because Al Qaeda was hitting the Saudis because of our presence. We moved much of what we had to Bahrain and later into Iraq.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Because they say so?Originally posted by Ramo
And this was a strategic loss because it substantially increases Spain's in particular and Europe's in general resolve to destroy al-Qaeda.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Once again, for the umpteenth time in nearly two years:
- Saudi is a target, and has been since 9-11, but it cannot be moved against because they are "allies" and have their foot on the throat of the world oil supply.
- Iraq is the key loosening the grip on the Saudi oil supply, but it wasn't going to happen until Saddam either cooperated or was removed. He wasn't about to cooperate, so he was removed.
- Once Iraq was secure enough to produce oil, we could start backing away from our "alliance" with the Saudis. We have, in fact, been doing just that.
- Eventually, the Saudi regime will be rendered economically impotant, or it will be removed. Possibly both.
- The Saudis can change this outcome by forcefully dealing with their terrorist entanglements; there has been some progress made in this area, though it so far has not been sufficient to change the overall plan.No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.Comment
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Al-Qaeda has far broader goals than Iraq. That ain't an option for the new Spanish gov't.You have to read between the lines. The PP was ahead in the polls. Then there was the bombing, and then the Socialist party won. That means that some voters changed their minds. Now it is likely that Zapatero will not do anything to risk having another terrorist attack happening to Spain. That means making the appearance of having Spain's tail between it's legs. As I said earlier, al-Qaeda is not exactly shaking in it's boots about Zapatero's little speak aimed at stopping them.
And people by and large didn't change minds, rather people who decided to sit-out on the election decided to turnout in massive numbers."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I don't see any other reason to say otherwise. And look at what 9/11 did to people in this country, the first reaction is revenge.Because they say so?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Americans and Europeans aren't the same...KH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!Comment
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If I were the new Spanish govt I would keep the Spanish troops in Iraq just to show al-Qaeda that they can not be successfull using terrorism to affect elections, even though I would agree with the Spanish not keeping the troops in Iraq had the bombing not happened right before the election. The election is the higher issue than the involvement in Iraq.Originally posted by Ramo
Al-Qaeda has far broader goals than Iraq. That ain't an option for the new Spanish gov't.
That is changing minds.Originally posted by Ramo
And people by and large didn't change minds, rather people who decided to sit-out on the election decided to turnout in massive numbers.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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The rest of the world has the option to free ride. The US really doesn't.Originally posted by Ramo
I don't see any other reason to say otherwise. And look at what 9/11 did to people in this country, the first reaction is revenge.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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The rest of the world has the option to free ride. The US really doesn't.
Very true. Ramo seems to think that the Euros are going to go after Al Qaeda hard-core after this, but I think it's far more likely that they'll retreat and free ride while America does all the work.KH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!Comment
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Maybe, but I don't see a good reason to say that there's a difference in this respect.Americans and Europeans aren't the same...
I don't think that this sort of posturing would have much of an effect. I personally support the occupation, just think that it's being badly mismanaged, and so think that Spanish troops ought to be used as leverage to get us to act more responsibly.If I were the new Spanish govt I would keep the Spanish troops in Iraq just to show al-Qaeda that they can not be successfull using terrorism to affect elections, even though I would agree with the Spanish not keeping the troops in Iraq had the bombing not happened right before the election. The election is the higher issue than the involvement in Iraq.
The Euros have been extremely involved in fighting al-Qaeda already. And that's only because of 9/11. I think the response will be much bigger after attacks on European soil.Very true. Ramo seems to think that the Euros are going to go after Al Qaeda hard-core after this, but I think it's far more likely that they'll retreat and free ride while America does all the work.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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