Terrorists claim victory in Spain

[oedo]

my assumption would be another one. the intention of AQ actually was making the Spanish people vote for PP. Because after the attack the people would say to themselves: if I vote for PSOE now, I would do exactly what AQ wants me to do. And I don´t want to do what AQ wants, so I will vote for PP, because this is what AQ NOT wants me to do.
As we could see, AQ's calculation failed.

You may turn it as you want. No matter the result, there would have been always anyonesaying, it's a victory for the terrorists.

[joncha]

Terrorists just aren't very good at reverse psychology, is all.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Kidicious


It's not just that we want people to fight our way, but often it seems like they just like to appear to be fighting, but letting us take the hits.

Is Madrid in the US or in Spain?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor

The real aims of the Iraqi campaign had nothing to do with terrorism. But for the people like Shi who believe that the professed aim (terrorism) is the actual one, the Iraqi campaign was counterproductive in this regard.

And what were the "real" aims: Oil? Bush wanted the Oil? Is that it?

[oedo]

Originally posted by Ned

And what were the "real" aims: Oil? Bush wanted the Oil? Is that it?

so you mean, if it wasn't about oil it must have been 'bout terrorism?

[Ned]

Oedo -- what about the stated goals: Remove Saddam, disarm Iraq, install democracy as a best hope not only for Iraq, but for the whole region?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I don't mean to make any general statement about Spaniards, but I'm disappointed in the recent events.

Were the P.S.O.E. opposed to sending Spanish troops to Iraq before the Spanish general election?

Did Spanish voters know this?

How many first time young Spanish voters voted for the P.S.O.E. , and how many were going to do so, BEFORE the terrorist atrocity?


The thinking behind some people's posts here is that if Aznar's party had been returned to office, somehow the terrorists would not have won, and democracy would have triumphed.

However, a two term conservative government is peacefully turned out of office and a 'socialist' party is peacefully elected and will probably govern Spain in a coalition government, and somehow, people assume that Al Qaeda is 'ecstatic' about this turn of events.

Yes.

I'm sure that Bin Laden is breaking out the Rioja and tapas even now, mightily cheered that Spanish democracy is in full working order.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Kidicious


It's not just that we want people to fight our way, but often it seems like they just like to appear to be fighting, but letting us take the hits.

Yes. The train explosions in Madrid, NEW YORK were absolutely horrifying
In other news, has the US Army put down the Chechen rebellion? I hear that Moscow, Texas has had many terrorist attacks in the past year

Sorry, but if the US wants to lash out at everyone just because they don't support the war...I say let them. It'll only speed up the decline of the US

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Democracy is caving in to the terrorists. If we choose our own leaders, we're giving them just what they want! In order to defeat the terrorists we must make Bush President for Life and Repeal the constitution now!

[joncha]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


Yes. The train explosions in Madrid, NEW YORK were absolutely horrifying
In other news, has the US Army put down the Chechen rebellion? I hear that Moscow, Texas has had many terrorist attacks in the past year

Sorry, but if the US wants to lash out at everyone just because they don't support the war...I say let them. It'll only speed up the decline of the US

Good post, Commie Tass. Here's your reward:

[Nubclear]

You know....Its interesting:
After Sep11, the world gave its sympathies to the United States. Saddam Hussein even said that while the government of the US deserves this, the people don't.
Yet after the Spanish terrorist attack.....The US isn't trying to comfort Spain, but instead resorts to calling them cowards and terrorist allies and whatnot...



Edit: Sorry, but the pic doesn't say "OWN3D!!!11!!!1", thus it doesn't count

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by oedo
You may turn it as you want. No matter the result, there would have been always anyonesaying, it's a victory for the terrorists.

Exactly. The right and the left have different views on how we should fight terrorism. Whoever was to win, the other side would have claimed that "the terrorists were victorious, as demonstrated by the policies the new government is undertaking."

So the idiots should get over that and realize that the terrorists have ALREADY lost, or else we wouldn't name them as such.

[OliverFA]

Al-Qaeda 1 - Spanish democracy 0

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europ...0700/index.html

BOMBS 'TO SPLIT SPAIN FROM ALLIES'

MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- A document published months before national elections
reveals al Qaeda planned to separate Spain from its allies by carrying out
terror attacks.

A December posting on a Internet message board used by al Qaeda and its
sympathizers and obtained by CNN, spells out a plan to topple the pro-U.S.
government.

"We think the Spanish government will not stand more than two blows, or
three at the most, before it will be forced to withdraw because of the
public pressure on it," the al Qaeda document says.

"If its forces remain after these blows, the victory of the Socialist Party
will be almost guaranteed -- and the withdrawal of Spanish forces will be on
its campaign manifesto."

That prediction came to fruition in elections Sunday, with the Socialists
unseating the Popular Party three days after near-simultaneous bombings of
four trains killed 200 and shocked the nation.

Ninety percent of Spaniards had opposed Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's
staunch support for the U.S.-led war against Iraq, and some have blamed his
government's policies for the train bombings.

Prime Minister-elect Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said Monday he wants the
1,300 Spanish troops in Iraq to return home by June 30 if the United Nations
"doesn't take control of Iraq."

"I think Spain's participation in the war has been a total error," he said.
(Full story)

Meanwhile, one of the five men arrested in connection with the bombings has
links to the plotters of an al Qaeda-linked bombing in Casablanca last year,
CNN has learned.

The May 2003 suicide attacks in Casablanca killed nearly three dozen people.

Spanish authorities have arrested three Moroccans and two Indians in
connection with the Madrid bombings.

One of the men, Jamal Zougam, 30, has ties to two brothers who have been
charged in connection with the Casablanca bomb plot, according to a Moroccan
government official.

Zougam is also believed to be a follower of Imad Eddin Barakat Yarkas, the
alleged ringleader of al Qaeda in Spain, according to a Spanish court
document.

All five are being held incommunicado under Spain's anti-terrorism law,
which requires they be charged within five days of their detention.

Authorities said investigators tracked the men through a cellular telephone
and a pre-paid telephone card discovered in a backpack containing explosives
found shortly after Thursday's attacks.

Helping the investigation is a videotape in which a man claiming to be a
military spokesman for al Qaeda in Europe says the terrorist network was
behind the bombings.

In the United States, Asa Hutchinson, the undersecretary for the Department
of Homeland Security, said they thought the Madrid bombings had the
fingerprints of al Qaeda.

"We do know that there is a connection to al Qaeda. We have verified that,"
he told CNN.

"At this point, there clearly is some link and we're going to continue to
see the depth of that."

However, another administration official would only say Islamic
fundamentalists remain high on the list of suspects.

"Things are slightly leaning towards Islamic fundamentalist responsibility,
as opposed to pure ETA or al Qaeda," one senior administration official
said.

ETA is a Basque separatist group that has been fighting for more than three
decades for an independent state. The group is designated a terrorist
organization by the United States and the European Union.

The U.S. intelligence community is considering the possibility the bombings
may have been carried out by a number of people with various ties to
terrorist groups, the senior administration official said, adding theories
include the following possibilities:


Islamic fundamentalists with support from ETA;


Islamic fundamentalists with close ties to al Qaeda, although not
necessarily "card-carrying members of al Qaeda"; or,


Members of ETA or al Qaeda.

In the wake of the bombings, Spanish Interior Minister Angel Acebes
announced Monday that a European Union anti-terrorist conference will be
held Friday in Madrid. (Full story)

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said he was confident Spain would
continue to play a significant role in the war on terrorism.

"Terrorism has to be defeated," he said.

"I don't think the Spanish people are any more inclined to give any
encouragement to terrorists or to give terrorists the slightest impression
that they are not going to be engaged fully by the Spanish government -- no
matter who is prime minister."

Powell added that he was not sure if the Madrid bombings affected the
outcome of Sunday's elections: "But the one thing I'm quite sure of is that
Spanish people remain committed in the war against terrorists."

[Nubclear]

No, such idiots need to realize that the terrorists are WINNING, as indicated by the USAmericans so deseperately trying to distance themselves away from their allies.
Thats what Al Qaeda wants really: For the US to lose its power, and for the west to become fragmented with disunity.

[yaroslav]

That is your pratiotism, Oliver? When your party lost the goverment, you abandon our flag...