Heavy terr act in Madrid

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


You are the idiot around here. Use your brain. I was pissed off about these terrorist attacks, and that later turned into sadness. If you know anything about human emotions you would know this.. or are you just a bot? You are nothing more than a fool.

And now you are pissed of again, apparently.

I support the death penalty for those who committed these heinous acts of mass murder. The martial law thing was said when I was extremely angry at what happened.

And how would the death penalty help. Oh I see if someone belives strongly in the death penalty all they have to do is blow up some bombs. Then it will be reinstated.

You're a narcisstic person. You are full of yourself. You cannot even formulate an argument properly. You should stay out of this thread because you are doing nothing but disgracing the memories of those who were killed almost instantously. You have no regard for human life. You have no regard for the Spanish people. You have no regard for those who have been hurt emotionally by this attack, me including. You are nothing but a narcisstic know-it-all disgrace of a human being.

Because I don't support martial law and the death peanlty? How is that inhumane?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Tripledoc


And now you are pissed of again, apparently.

I am... I been pretty moody.. angry.. at the terrorists for doing this. Upset and sad for those who perished.

Oh I see if someone belives strongly in the death penalty all they have to do is blow up some bombs. Then it will be reinstated.

You're a moron.

Because I don't support martial law and the death peanlty? How is that inhumane?

I don't support martial law, you nescient fool. I just was really pissed when I said that. I didn't mean it. In fact I totally support the Basque people in their autonomy. I support the death penalty because it is a way to carry out justice.

[Az]

Because Osama and other fundamentalists try to take advantage of the Iraq war by playing the avengers of all muslims in this "war of the evil crusaders against islam" how they'd put it.
Bin Laden is mad at everybody. Germany and France aren't safe of Al-Quaeda attacks either but iraq-war participants are a more juicy target because in the muslim world attacks on them can count with more sympathy.

Apparently. you haven't read my post. Bin Laden isn't some sort of drooling pitbull looking someone to attack. He has a strategy. Winning support? I don't see how such an attack would in any way, positive or negative influence the common ME person's perception on Bin Laden, esp. with the involvement in Iraq of countries besides UK and US getting almost zero airtime in the arab world. This is intended to make an effect on the public in Europe.

[Dauphin]

Argh, Poly ate my reply.

Azazel, in principle I don't disagree with you. I admit that you are in a position to understand the situation far better than I. That said I still think there is still reason to assume AQ is taking into account the muslim population and what their views and reactions will be to the targets that they choose.

I question your strong statement that all muslims are at best ambivalent to the terrorist attacks.

they attempt to interfere with western inter-governmental politics

I'm following that through to a conclusion. Attacking Spain (or any other coallition member) makes the Western populace, especially Europe, see that aiding the US will lead to them becoming targets. Governments in turn will choose not to assist US because of their own populations fears of being attacked. This is acheivable only because the war in Iraq was not presented as a united front. The net result is that the US loses allies in any future operations in the Middle East. And that leads back to you original question. "If Osama Bin Laden had nothing to do with Saddam, why do you think that he's mad only at the countries that supported the war on Iraq, and not all the countries that want to destroy him?".

[Giancarlo]

They are being targetted anyways by terrorists, whether they support the US or not. You think the terrorists give a damn who they hit in the west? They would hit any country... even a country like France who opposed the war.

[MOBIUS]

But it must be ETA!

Apparently they've been recruiting in Morocco and India - both such obvious strongholds of Basque support!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3509212.stm

BTW Azazel, why are you posting pics of arabs raising their right hands - what ARE you trying to say?

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Giancarlo

I support the death penalty because it is a way to carry out justice.

The Three Laws of Robotics.

First Law:
A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law:
A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law:
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

As can be seen from this there is no room for the death penalty here.

So even though robots have no emotions, they are in fact more humane than humans. It is unreflected emotions which make humans act in an inhumane manner.

[Az]

Azazel, in principle I don't disagree with you. I admit that you are in a position to understand the situation far better than I.

I actually never claimed it. The mere fact that I live in the middle east doesn't give me any superiority. It's only facts that one can bring into the argument that matter.

That said I still think there is still reason to assume AQ is taking into account the muslim population and what their views and reactions will be to the targets that they choose.

certainly. I just don't think that it would matter to an average person in the ME if, say, Germany was bombed.

I question your strong statement that all muslims are at best ambivalent to the terrorist attacks.

note: I wasn't talking about the muslims in the world, generally. I don't have the knowledge about that to make that or another judgement. I am talking about the average person in the arab world. In the case of the youth, it's a done deal. But in the case of the average arab person, It's that automatic feeling of sympathy with your people, that raw nationalism, that plays a role. I will commit a fallacy, and use personal experience. Never have I seen an arab muslim admitting that his nation has ever committed a wrongdoing on the international arena. In fact, I challenge you to find an arab muslim intellectual that would agree that there were wrongdoings against other people. The Western countries have grown out of this complete self-righteousness, but this is rather rare outside of the west.

I'm following that through to a conclusion. Attacking Spain (or any other coallition member) makes the Western populace, especially Europe, see that aiding the US will lead to them becoming targets. Governments in turn will choose not to assist US because of their own populations fears of being attacked. This is acheivable only because the war in Iraq was not presented as a united front. The net result is that the US loses allies in any future operations in the Middle East. And that leads back to you original question. "If Osama Bin Laden had nothing to do with Saddam, why do you think that he's mad only at the countries that supported the war on Iraq, and not all the countries that want to destroy him?".

It seems that we have a misunderstanding, because this is exactly my POV. But this isn't really saying that "Spain was attacked because it joined the war in Iraq", but the truth is that that's what they want you to think.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Tripledoc


The Three Laws of Robotics.

First Law:
A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law:
A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law:
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

As can be seen from this there is no room for the death penalty here.

So even though robots have no emotions, they are in fact more humane than humans. It is unreflected emotions which make humans act in an inhumane manner.

[bipolarbear]

You think the terrorists give a damn who they hit in the west? They would hit any country... even a country like France who opposed the war.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you making a sweeping generalization ?

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Just watching the TV, I think they may have found some Arbaic language Koranic Verse tapes with the attackers...

I wouldnot put too much meaning into this as it was too easy found so most likely than anti-Islamist group planet it. It also can be a new Basque Terrorist Group at work which have no connection to ETA.

[Az]

BTW Azazel, why are you posting pics of arabs raising their right hands - what ARE you trying to say?

Why bring ethnicity into this? These are muslim fundy scum. This is just another pic to the series "Islamism is the fascism of the 21st century".

[Myrddin]

News reports that the Spanish authorities have arrested 3 Algerian and 2 'Indians' based on a suspuscious bag found on one of the trains

I'm guessing that they're not members of ETA

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Azazel
I actually never claimed it. The mere fact that I live in the middle east doesn't give me any superiority. It's only facts that one can bring into the argument that matter.

I was basically saying I am largely ignorant of the ME through personal apathy to the situation. What I know comes through headline news media every so often, and I (rightly or wrongly) assumed that you would personally know more due to the Palestinian issues effecting your country on a daily basis.

It seems that we have a misunderstanding, because this is exactly my POV. But this isn't really saying that "Spain was attacked because it joined the war in Iraq", but the truth is that that's what they want you to think.

I agree we have a misunderstanding. Its hard to convey ideas about such a complex issues in such short posts. Each of us will fill in the gaps with supposition.

[MOBIUS]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Azazel

BTW Azazel, why are you posting pics of arabs raising their right hands - what ARE you trying to say?

Why bring ethnicity into this?

Well are they arabs or are they not!?

I could be wrong but they look like arabs to me.

You posted the picture, not me. I wasn't the one saying anything about ethnicity, you're the one that brought it up.

These are muslim fundy scum. This is just another pic to the series "Islamism is the fascism of the 21st century".

Aha, they're fascists - for a minute I thought someone had asked them "hands up who thinks Zionism is the fascism of the 21st century"

Works both ways, brother...