Heavy terr act in Madrid

[Alfonso]

EDIT:

[Kuciwalker]

nm

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Azazel
wait a minute, this makes no sense. If Osama Bin Laden had nothing to do with Saddam, why do you think that he's mad only at the countries that supported the war on Iraq, and not all the countries that want to destroy him?

Maybe its because using the war on Iraq is a good way to get your Muslim followers to do as you ask. Using an invasion and occupation as a cite for a terrorist attack is much more effective than just saying "They don't like Muslims, lets kill them".

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by OliverFA


Safer does not implies more freedom. Of course, in communist times every aspect of the life was controlled by the soviets (or at least they tried to). In such kind of situation people is safer but their freedom is highly restricted.

I would even say that people weren't really safer in those countries, because the safety against ordinary crimes they won on the one hand they lost on the other hand because they were not safe at all from actions of the security authorities....lack of freedoms means also lack of safety in this aspect.

[Az]

Maybe its because using the war on Iraq is a good way to get your Muslim followers to do as you ask. Using an invasion and occupation as a cite for a terrorist attack is much more effective than just saying "They don't like Muslims, lets kill them".

If they're your followers, they'll do what you want, anyway. Plus, I am left with the impression that noone is fooling anyone. OBL and co. really believe in what they preach.

In any case, your line of thought implies that the bottleneck is recruiting people to the al-qaeda cells. It ain't and it never was.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Azazel
If they're your followers, they'll do what you want, anyway.

I don't know about that, true to a degree certainly, but citing great evils can whip up a fervour and increase commitment to a cause. Also if you want to sway more moderate Muslims to your line of thinking, using Iraq is a good techique. The people he reaches may not agree with his terrorist actions, but they may become more hostile to the US and its allies. It may even be feeding of the anti-war coallitions in Europe and America, reinforcing the notion to muslims that the war was wrong.

Plus, I am left with the impression that noone is fooling anyone. OBL and co. really believe in what they preach.

You can preach what you believe, and you can believe what you preach. If they realise something expedites their cause its not hard to believe that they will incorporate it into their doctrine.

You could also ask, why would OBL not kick up a fuss about the US lead war in Iraq. It was an attack on a Muslim population by a Christian force. Isn't that enough to piss off AQ. The conclusion then is to be angry at the Christian nations that carried out the invasion.

[Ned]

Assuming this was al Qaeda, I would presume that the average Spainard would burn in rage against al Qaeda and not against Aznar. If so, the left's trying to pin blame on Aznar will only result in anger against them as well.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ned
Assuming this was al Qaeda, I would presume that the average Spainard would burn in rage against al Qaeda and not against Aznar. If so, the left's trying to pin blame on Aznar will only result in anger against them as well.

I wouldn't make that assumption Ned. The mood in Europe in general seems to be such that when the violence in Iraq spills over to involve Europeans in any way the tendency is to blame the US. If a connection between ETA and al Qaeda can be proven then I'm certain that the anger of the people will become directed at OBL as well as ETA, because then he will be seen as interfereing in Spansih politics.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Azazel
wait a minute, this makes no sense. If Osama Bin Laden had nothing to do with Saddam, why do you think that he's mad only at the countries that supported the war on Iraq, and not all the countries that want to destroy him?

Azazel, if this was serious I know you can do better than this. If I'm mad at the US because they funded Pinochet, does this mean that I was an agent for Allende?

[Ned]

Dr. Strangelove, if you are right, I would lose all respect for Europeans. They would be beneath contempt.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Kucinich
It's not BLAME. Blame is moral responsibility. Causal responsibility is pointless - so their actions were part of the causal link to the attack. So what? Why are you saying it?

Again, it is unclear how my statements directly relate to the Spanish victims. This is why I used 9/11 as a better example.

The causal responsibility was linked to my example of the guy who walks into a deathtrap even though he knew there was one. His action was nether morally wrong or right, but it was stupid.

In politics, you have to consider the real world and not some theories about intrinsic morale. Thus, even though what you're doing is right, or simply neutral, you have to take into account the consequences. In this case, the 'blame' could go for idiocy, and, depending on moral theories, it may also become moral.

If what you are doing is wrong, and that the direct consequences of what you did are wrong actions committed by others, then you are in part responsible for the wrong reaction to your wrong action. This is pretty much universally accepted, AFAIK.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Ned
Dr. Strangelove, if you are right, I would lose all respect for Europeans. They would be beneath contempt.

What's good with Europeans is that they want their buddies to be neither Bush or Osama, but... somewhere in the middle. But for a president who says that you're with us or against us, that's a difficult proposition to tackle, isn't it?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Again, it is unclear how my statements directly relate to the Spanish victims.

Then why are you trolling in a thread about Spain?

[Dr Strangelove]

The latest Reuters report says that the government of Spain is now "99%" certain that the culprits were muslim extremists.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Then why are you trolling in a thread about Spain?

I felt like discussing 'morality and terrorism', and how it could relate to this particular case, and possibly other cases (9/11).