Heavy terr act in Madrid

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Have you read all my posts? Causal responsibility can indeed stay amoral (read my deathtrap example), but it can be idiotic.

As for the victims having no responsibility, I suppose there is no morality involved in democratic choices?

So you think the terrorists only targetted specific voters? That was some special train?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kucinich


So you think the terrorists only targetted specific voters? That was some special train?

No, special bombs.


Like the ones the 'states use which only blow up dictators and terrorists.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
I will wait for the investigation first, not pure speculation on some forum.

While its always good to wait for the "official" word,the international make up and insights of 'Poly makes it a whole lot more than "some forum"

[Pax]

My belated condolences to all those effected by the attack.
Sincerely Kevin

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by PLATO


While its always good to wait for the "official" word,the international make up and insights of 'Poly makes it a whole lot more than "some forum"

Whilst that may be true, I want an investigation and as nobody on here is an investigator sifting through the details stuff said here is speculation. This forum is also predominantly leftist.

[Agathon]

Just finished reading the thread. Hmmm I have a friend here who is from Madrid. I haven't spoken to her yet, I think I'll leave it for a few days.

OB is unquestionably right about the moral responsibility thing. It is not a zero sum game. People can bear partial responsibility for bad things others do to them by being negligent or engaging in criminal acts themselves. This takes no blame away from the perpetrator and most often the kind of blame attributed to the victim is a different kind of blame. Go look up the other thread if you disagree. I managed to get Ming and MtG to agree with me, so I must have been especially plausible that day.

Anyway, while that philosophical point is true, it's not clear if it applies in this case.

If it is Al Quaeda (and I can't think of any reason for them to do this - they already got what they wanted out of 911), then I don't see how ordinary Spanish citizens bear any responsibility for this.

The Spanish people made it quite clear, in overwhelming numbers (far more than anyone else), that they were opposed to the war and their elected representatives ignored them. I don't see what other, reasonable action they could have taken. Overthrowing the government would have perhaps been even more problematic and a general strike would have hurt them more than the government (although if that had happened, my admiration for the Spanish people would have gone through the roof).

Why should the average Spaniard be blamed for a bent president who wouldn't do what he was told?

[Giancarlo]

Considering the current Spanish government has brought a lot of prosperity to Spain, overthrowing would be stupid. The polls also indicate the PP will win the election.

You're a fool, Agathon. Aznar did what was right.

[Pax]

It looks as if Aznar has brought prosperity and war.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Agathon


Anyway, while that philosophical point is true, it's not clear if it applies in this case.

If it is Al Quaeda (and I can't think of any reason for them to do this - they already got what they wanted out of 911), then I don't see how ordinary Spanish citizens bear any responsibility for this.

The Spanish people made it quite clear, in overwhelming numbers (far more than anyone else), that they were opposed to the war and their elected representatives ignored them. I don't see what other, reasonable action they could have taken.
[...]
Why should the average Spaniard be blamed for a bent president who wouldn't do what he was told?

My point exactly. The Spanish people is innocent. If someone has to be guilty (if and only if, under so far undetermined conditions), it is Aznar.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


My point exactly. The Spanish people is innocent. If someone has to be guilty (if and only if, under so far undetermined conditions), it is Aznar.

That's crap in the greatest with regards to Aznar. Very rich indeed.

[Fake Boris]

BTW, a fact that I believe has been overlooked so far.

There are no more Batasuna deputees not because they didn't go for the election or lost popular support, but because they were forbidden to do so.

Wholly different. I thank the progressist Spaniards, OliverFa and Giancarlo, for pointing this out.

[Heavy and Happy]

Look at these fools. The sign n reads 'The bombs dropped in Iraq explode in Madrid'.

[Agathon]

Look at this DL. Someone ban his ass.

[Fake Boris]

Ban this DL.

And to the protester who had the guts to do this. I don't necessarily agree, but his courage imposes respect.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Kucinich


So you think the terrorists only targetted specific voters? That was some special train?

No, I said that the terrorist's reasoning may have been 'statistically, some victims will be morally desserving of it'. That wouldn't be any different than the American reasoning, which was 'we'll get Osama, even though statistically, innocents will suffer in the process'.

Don't get me wrong, I hate both Bush and Osama.