So how come black people call each other ******?

[Pax]

Originally posted by David Floyd


First of all, I was referring to people in America. Secondly, by saying that you were negatively impacted by the slave trade, you are saying that you would be better off if slavery never existed, and you still lived in Africa. Do you make that assertion?

Look, I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just trying to make the point that hating people because of slavery is completely ridiculous. No one alive had anything to do with slavery, and the fact that millions of slaves were imported into America means that today there are millions of people who have opportunities in America they never would have had in Africa. This, I think, is the main point, or at least my main point.

Theben,

I have specifically responded to any of your relevant points that had not already been responded to, and were not repetitive. If I missed one, by all means, point it out and I'll respond to that, too. I'm a reasonable guy, see?

I'm not good with the net lingo. I really don't know what trolling, spam war or flame war is. I can say I'm not pissed about anything you said. I am also stating that that Africa and Africans would be a different place if not for the European colonization and slave trade. In fact, America would be different. Today, I make a lot of money so I probably would not go live in africa as it is now. BUt how it could have been is a matter of speculation. I think that africa would have been a great place to live. I also love a society were I can look at womens breasts all day. Come to think of it I would never get anything done.

[Pekka]

Interesting discussion. I think what is also keeping Africa behind, or many African countries is the structure of the society. I think that causes many problems there. The question would be, if European colonization never happened or the slave trade, would they have more advanced structure or not. Because I believe it is one of the reasons for the obstacles of advancing.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Theben
just how do you think most 3rd world countries ended up that way!?

The evil white man strikes again!

[Japher]

Pax, I am glad yer here... The only black dude we've had to discuss or bounce this sheit off of is Speers, and he ain't even black; he just thinks he is...

[David Floyd]

I'm just not seeing how Africa, as a continent, or any individual country in Africa, would have been significantly better off without the slave trade. Too many other things were dragging Africa down - lack of resources, lack of technology, corruption, lack of trade in many areas, etc.

*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong. I don't claim to be omniscient.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Interesting. Did you feel offended by him calling you "honky" or "cracker"?

my first day there, i was greeted with a "whats up ******?". that DID kind of freak me out, but i don't think i can say it offended me. i didn't really know how to respond to that.

when he started calling us crackers and honkies, i have to say i was a little offended. i don't THINK i am a honkey, cracker, or what have you. it was kind of insulting that he would inssuate that i was a racist without even knowing me (thats my definition of cracker, please correct me). he just threw out those words without even getting to know me, and i felt kind of offended. but i guess thats just the way he is. i don't think he means anything by it, so i'm alright with it now. i still stop when he says it, but i don't think much of it anymore.

[Theben]

Originally posted by David Floyd

Or maybe you think that without the slave trade, African nations wouldn't be considered Third World?

Oh, they'd be 3rd world, don't get me wrong. But the result of colonialism plays a big part in what makes them "****holes".

For many nations, it's a lack of natural resources, a lack of military power, being off the main trade routes, etc.

Sorry, but I disagree. African nations with a great number of natural resources, such as South Africa, are not considered Third World (although South Africa has been going downhill lately). One other thing that has held back Africa is rampant corruption - even if a nation DOES have a lot of natural resources, corrupt governments prevent efficient exploitation and use of said resources.

Oh good, a 3rd one. I feel better now. Thanks for proving my point.

[Japher]

Interesting discussion. I think what is also keeping Africa behind, or many African countries is the structure of the society. I think that causes many problems there. The question would be, if European colonization never happened or the slave trade, would they have more advanced structure or not. Because I believe it is one of the reasons for the obstacles of advancing.

Actually, Pekka, the thing keeping African society behind is;


a) Inter-tribe warring
b) Greed
c) Racsism

[Dis]

argh, why is this thread open. I hate people using that word (except in rap music)

[Pekka]

Japher, well, inter-tribe warring is one of the things I'm thinking and indicating with the structure of society. In some countries there is the clan system, that can't work really in a way where we could see real advancements in things. This definitely keeps some parts of Africa held back, or is one reason for it. Of course not the only reason, but one of the many.

[Pax]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Not entirely or even primarily (or secondarily, or anywhere close to it) from the slave trade. For many nations, it's a lack of natural resources, a lack of military power, being off the main trade routes, etc.

Or maybe you think that without the slave trade, African nations wouldn't be considered Third World?

Sorry, but I disagree. African nations with a great number of natural resources, such as South Africa, are not considered Third World (although South Africa has been going downhill lately). One other thing that has held back Africa is rampant corruption - even if a nation DOES have a lot of natural resources, corrupt governments prevent efficient exploitation and use of said resources.

Look at who controls the resources in Africa. IMO the 3rd world countries were not set up to be strong so that they could easily come to rival europe. They were set up to be weak and in a state were they could not challenge European dominance. Even when the blacks and peasants gain democracy the Europeans(and I am including white sout africans) control the resources. If the Europeans would not have colonized we don't know what would have happened. I blame any problems in any former colony at least 50 percent of the colonizers fault.

[David Floyd]

Oh, they'd be 3rd world, don't get me wrong. But the result of colonialism plays a big part in what makes them "****holes".

Well, from my perspective, a Third World nation IS a ****hole - if it wasn't a ****hole, it wouldn't be considered Third World. I wouldn't want to live my life outside of the US, Canada, Western Europe, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and a couple other places, and I think most Americans would agree with me.

Oh good, a 3rd one. I feel better now. Thanks for proving my point.

If stating that corruption holds Africa back is proving your point, then consider your point proved. I've always held the position that corruption in government is a limiting factor in the development of any given country.

Japher,

I'm not sure how greed holds any society behind. It seems to me that the desire to accumulate wealth can only improve a nation. To quote Wall Street, "Greed, for lack of a better word, is GOOD."

Obviously, greed combined with corruption holds a nation back, and trying to accumulate wealth through immoral means (stealing/fraud, mainly) does the same thing.

[David Floyd]

Look at who controls the resources in Africa. IMO the 3rd world countries were not set up to be strong so that they could easily come to rival europe. They were set up to be weak and in a state were they could not challenge European dominance. Even when the blacks and peasants gain democracy the Europeans(and I am including white sout africans) control the resources. If the Europeans would not have colonized we don't know what would have happened. I blame any problems in any former colony at least 50 percent of the colonizers fault.

This ignores the fact that the colonies, prior to colonization, were so far behind the Europeans in terms of technology that they had no hope of catching up on their own. Hell, that's the reason they got colonized to begin with. I think it's a fair bet that without colonization, many nations in Africa would be even less technologically advanced. Not that I support colonization, either, but let's not pretend that it didn't bring anything positive to Africa.

[Theben]

Originally posted by David Floyd

First of all, I was referring to people in America. Secondly, by saying that you were negatively impacted by the slave trade, you are saying that you would be better off if slavery never existed, and you still lived in Africa. Do you make that assertion?

Plenty of blacks immigrate to america now. They could've come over of their own free will at a later date.

Look, I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just trying to make the point that hating people because of slavery is completely ridiculous.

Is there ever a point where hatred is justified?

No one alive had anything to do with slavery, and the fact that millions of slaves were imported into America means that today there are millions of people who have opportunities in America they never would have had in Africa. This, I think, is the main point, or at least my main point.

Except that a lot of them don't have opportunities, and we'll never know what could have been if colonialism/slavery hadn't occurred (in this case by slavery I mean the mass enslavement of Africans over the last 400 years). Africa is actually quite wealthy in resources.
And again, immigration would allow for those people with talent to seek their fortunes in a 1st world nation.

[Pax]

What positive thing did Colonization/imperialism bring to africa?