So how come black people call each other ******?

[David Floyd]

Theben,

No, you don't get it. The pilgrimage from Mali to Mecca under the reign of Mansa Musa wound up fianancing the Renaissance. Think about how that would've changed history.

OK, but the reign of Mansa Musa was during the 14th Century, which was much earlier than the bulk of the slave trade - at least, the European slave trade. Arabs and Africans were trading slaves around at that point amongst each other.

Although, this brings up an interesting side point. You know what happened to the kingdom of Mali? Well, after Mansa Musa made his wealth (and kingdom) known, Mali began appearing on maps in the Middle East and Europe. By the 16th Century, Mali was known as Songhai, a kingdom that was ultimately destroyed when the more modern Moroccan army invaded.

Point is, your example of a wealthy African kingdom - which I grant you, certainly existed - was wiped out by fighting with other African nations, and the trade routes that had brought the region prosperity were wiped out as well. You can't really blame Europeans for that one

I AM saying that if colonialism hadn't occurred, or had taken on a different method not involving mass enslavement as historically happened:

1) Africa WOULD be in better shape than it is today.
2) There would not be mass resentment toward whites by blacks in America, for one there wouldn't be as many, and two they wouldn't be descendants of slaves, Jim Crow, and current 2nd class citizens.

Undoubtedly so. I don't deny either point for a single second. I also don't deny that slavery was morally wrong. My issue is with people who feel that, without slavery, they would be better off living in Africa. Regardless of how prosperous Africa might or might not have become, it is hard for me to envision ANY African nation rising to the level of the United States, or, for that matter, any other current First World country.

That doesn't make slavery OK, it just means that whites don't owe blacks anything, and it means that blacks really have no justification for hating whites because of slavery.

[Pax]

Originally posted by dainbramage20
Pax. By No means am I racist or such. And By no Means do I intentionally intend to come off that way. I love all races and break bread with all of them. I simply dislike attitudes and attire and I dislike the popular culture embraced by african americans (and some others) influencing todays attitudes and dress in this area as it teach kids that there is no hope in this world and your only goal in life is to get rich or die tryin. No ambition to be something productive like a docter, None to be a lawyer, Not even a mechanic. Ive trained hundreds of African Americans at work. I can say without a doubt 98% of them dont stay. They have there priorities wrong. Some came in late smelling of marijuana, others just dont call. And yet others will lie right to your face despite the blame for a problem being solely in there hands.

Alot of African-Americans need help NOW. Not
tommorrow, not 2010, NOW. You need to catch up. You are in danger of being further marginalized politically and economically, not worth pandering too cause 60% dont even vote (gallup poll from 2000). Whatever idea's from the Left or Right I would like to hear them.

Of course back on topic. I dont use that word. Its disrespectful tho I hear african americans use that word alot. It doesnt bother me too much. As its an in-culture thing I guess. I wont get it cause im not inside the culture. Im so Damn white If I step outside in the sun for a tan, I get whiter.

Where do you work?

[SlowwHand]

Why? Planning terrorist activities?

[Pax]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Could we please not generalize? Europe did that Europe did the other. Specific countries did specific things. Not "Europe" Doesn't mean anything. Thanks.

In the case of this argument Europe would be France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, England, Canada, U.S., Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Russia and Germany. Any country with mainly European ancestry that had a hand in the subjugation of a people.

[Pax]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Why? Planning terrorist activities?

I want to get an idea of who he's talking about before I make a comment on his statement.

[Pax]

Originally posted by MrBaggins


No... just another example of where Africa has been better run by foreigners than the natives... along with the obvious example of S.A., of course.

I can't think of any sub-saharan country where black leadership has made an outstanding contribution, in fact.

Refer to my statement about China Achebe. S.A. has IMO opinion South Africa has not been better off when run by whites read Cry thy beloved country or master harold and the boys

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Theben


No, you don't get it. The pilgrimage from Mali to Mecca under the reign of Mansa Musa wound up fianancing the Renaissance. Think about how that would've changed history.

Uhh- it certainly adversely affected the economy in Egypt, but saying that his pilgrimage financed the European Renaissance is a gross oversimplification, and ignores European trade from Northern-Southern Europe, and with Asia and the Levant.

The roots of Italian prosperity lay more in the long conflict between Papacy and Empire which had caused Italy to divide into self-governing republican oligarchical city states, or similarly structured dukedoms, which all vied with each other to show their cultural prowess and financing of the new learning.

Venice's wealth for instance, lay more in privileged trade routes with the Far East through Constantinople, and the discovery of double entry bookkeeping gave Italian banking houses and financiers an advantage over competitors.

[Pax]

Originally posted by The Viceroy

From an Indian perspective, colour of skin is a very interesting thing. Being fair, is being god like .. Parents will do almost anything to ensure there children are fair, and many of the older generations still maintain that white people are there betters ..

Indians most certainly are race concious, especially towards africans .. if you think an S.Asian family would react badly to their daughter having a white boyfriend, i can promise you, if that boyfriend was black .. It would probably result in the girl being disowned...

For an indian parent, the issue is not one of culture, not one of cast or creed (although that can be an issue in villages), but simlpy one of imagining what colour the grand children will be, and what the neighbours would say. For outsiders that may seem quite alien, and quite wrong, but in such a close knit society, where your entire life can be governed by the colour of your skin, it is no surprise that parents wish there children to find a fair partner .. much like Victorian British parents insisted on marrying people of similar or better class.

In African American and from what I've Afro-French communities also have the same bias in favor of lighter skin. Especiallly among women where it's customary for them to straighten their hair. Darker skinned people are ridiculed with comments like tar baby and black jesus. Those are the insults in black communities not ******.
That connects the topic nicely.

[Pax]

You guys were busy while I was sleeping.

dainbramage20,
I don't have a clue as to where you work or what type of people apply for jobs there. I also can't and won't classify all african americans being the type you just described. I'm not like that. Although a lot of people I know are. White or black.

The things you mentioned in your articles are problems in african american subculture and in American culture. Louis Farrakhan, NOI leader has pointed a lot of these problems out among blacks. His point is that African Americans should stop waiting for the government to uplift them and do it themsleves. Stop waiting for money to be handed out and go start a business or a get a job. I agree with this. It sounds like you might also.
I don't know exactly why the each person you hire acts that way. Here's my belief. A lot, not all african americans live in a situation without hope or expectation of a better life. Kids at a young age need to have desire and possibility instilled in them. From this they can dream and work for a better life. A lot of these kids feel like there is no way they will ever be able to be successful so they never try. That's an incrimination on the Parents, The public school system as well as American Soicety as a whole. These kids don't need handouts they need hope and guidance. It's not being given to them. You can blame the parents but they never knew hope either. My first wife is like that. I pray that she does not infect my sons with her hopelessness.

[Pax]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Undoubtedly so. I don't deny either point for a single second. I also don't deny that slavery was morally wrong. My issue is with people who feel that, without slavery, they would be better off living in Africa. Regardless of how prosperous Africa might or might not have become, it is hard for me to envision ANY African nation rising to the level of the United States, or, for that matter, any other current First World country.

That doesn't make slavery OK, it just means that whites don't owe blacks anything, and it means that blacks really have no justification for hating whites because of slavery.

I should have never said anything about hate. Hating whites won't solve anything anyway. That's pointless, whether it's right or wrong." If you car was stolen it does no good to hate the thief. The thing to discuss is what to do after your car has been stolen.
I've already explained an actual fact. If you look in the dictionary you can see that words can have multiple meanings. Also, the meanings of words can change. The word ****** currently has 2 meanings. With the assimiliation of the african american more and more into mainstream society this meaning of the word ****** is still changing. In the future it probably won't have any meaning at all.

David,
I promise you I would much rather africans were never enslaved. I don't care if that would mean no air conditioning or whatever niceties I might had to give up. I already said and quite truthfully that the ability to look at naked women all day has a great appeal to me. I mean it. The ability to know my own history has a great appeal to me. I love history. I know so much about the greeks and romans. Yet next to nothing about my own history.

It's quite possible that the Europeans could have introduced technologies into these native cultures and not conquered or enslaved them. I admit that it's better for the Europeans to conquer and enslave them.

As far as Colonial rule goes I already explained that when the colonizers never really left. The resources in these countries are still controlled from Europe. The entire continent has been mentally and physically scarred from European dominance. I compare it to rape. You cna't expect these countries to just work. It's going to take a lot of work to get these countries on their feet.

[Japher]

Pax; Farrakhan was awesome, but what do the black ppl have today? Jessie Jackson? Give me a break. You no longer need to hide behind this guise that you are black, we know that and accept that, so get over it. IMO it is the black people that keep reminding every one that they are black, without need. Black Pride is a waste of time.

Viceroy is Indian? That is not a minority as far as I am concerned.

[Verto]

Lots of truth in that post. ^

[Pax]

Originally posted by Japher
Pax; Farrakhan was awesome, but what do the black ppl have today? Jessie Jackson? Give me a break. You no longer need to hide behind this guise that you are black, we know that and accept that, so get over it. IMO it is the black people that keep reminding every one that they are black, without need. Black Pride is a waste of time.

Viceroy is Indian? That is not a minority as far as I am concerned.

Farrkhan's not dead. I'm not hiding behind any guise. I heard him say that when I was 17. I'm 33 now. I have taken his advice to heart. Although, I'm not where i want to be in life, I'm a long way from where I was. I know what people in the projects think and are like. I lived there. I was one of them. I'm saying that they are not like that because they are black but because of the situation. Change the situation, You have an entirely different person.

I'm also stating that studies have shown a disposition for African Americans in particular to have a cultural identity crisis. it's true. If you have time check out the movie school daze. It's one of the few movies to deal with the light skin dark skin color issue among african americans. Ask some of your black friends. Ask a social studies major.

[Japher]

As it applies to the N-word:


I use the word "dude" all the time, like a true Californian. Dude has it roots in the wild west. When people began to aspire to be cowboys they would "vacation" as ranch hands, it were considered fake cowboys, i.e. dudes. Thus, dude mean "faker"... I don't use it in that way, but that is what it means. I would never defend the fact that it is a deragatory term, and that me using it earns no respect. Yet, amongst friends it is find, and I would never have a problem with someone else calling me that, because that is the way I am.

The problem with the N-word is that it holds the same history, yet you and all the other black people will claim that has "connotation" to it. Yes, there is, and it is to desensitize the word. However, the fact that if a whitey WASP such as myself were to use I would get my arse kicked by any black person that I say it too. That in amongst itself tells me that it is black ppl that are not being desensitized to the word. Rather they use the word in the connoation they set it in to set themselves apart and further lable themselves as "the others" or outsiders...

Do you understand?

It is not that I would ever use that word, or that I think that one black person calling another person the N-word is flamatory, it is that the connotation carries with it more than just "brotherhood" but it carries with it the same juvinile attitude that encourages racism, regardless of race.

It is like me calling myself a dude, and my friends calling me a dude, but the minute someone i don't know calls me I dude a get all offensive...

I feel that it comes down to Black Pride, or really pride in general. You should be proud of who you are (a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, etc...) not what you are ( a male, a female, christian, jew, black, white, orange, purple, etc.)....

[Pax]

We could just eliminate all the white people then the word would only have one meaning. Just kidding.

You're not listening. As we speak the word is changing in meaning. Black and white kids are calling each other ******. It's not acceptable in my generation. Just like interracial dating and marriage is becoming more and more acceptable. In the future the words meaing will only have one meaing just like blacks will be assimilated into mainstream culture. So just relax.