Animal Rights and Abortion

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Why should animals have rights anyway?

Animals can't have rights. They are incapable of articulating a demand for a relationship and defending it. Only humans can have rights. This doesn't mean we have to be cruel or inhumane to animals. It's generally better for us if we treat animals with kindness.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That's what they want you to believe, but it's not universally true.

A paranoid statement followed by a meaningless one.

There may of course be slaughterhouses around which are not humane, but that doesn't imply that the majority aren't humane, and does not imply that slaughterhouses are in principle inhumane.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It's generally better for us if we treat animals with kindness.

Why? What do we get out of it? I can understand why we would want to, out of (misplaced?) feelings of empathy, but I don't see why it would be 'better' for us.

[chequita guevara]

Slaughterhouses these day process far too many animals to be humane. The stunning technique is haphazard. If an animal isn't completely out, it gets slaughtered anyway. As Spiffor noted, the animals are also well aware of what is coming, and many loose their bowels before getting stunned.

On top of that are the horrific factory farms. The issue of a painless death aside, most food animals live lives of pain and total confinement. Aside from being crue the the animals, it's also damned unhealthy for humans, as it makes it very easy for disease to spread through a heard or flock and be passed to the humans who eat them. This is why raw poulty has become toxic in the United States, while food poisoning rates have climbed steadily.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Why? What do we get out of it? I can understand why we would want to, out of (misplaced?) feelings of empathy, but I don't see why it would be 'better' for us.

See post about factory farms above. Also, when we are callous and abusive to animals, we tend not to do so well in treating humans as we should. Callousness and cruelty towards self-aware beings is easy to transfer. Finally there is the simple fact that treating animals with kindness helps relieve stress. There have been studies showing that prisoners who have pets become less violent.

[Rogan Josh]

Well, I don't know where you have been, but the slaughterhouses I have been in are not like that at all. It is in the interests of the meat producer to keep the animals from being scared (because otherwise they pump adrenalin around their bodies which makes the meat tough). Also, in the slaughterhouses I have been in, the electric shock through the brain kills the cattle instantly and painlessly (at least it appears that way). They are no more stressed than lambs are at shearing time (in fact a good deal less).

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sava
Two of my cousins are pro-choice, vegetarian women... (32 and 28 respectively) the younger says (as I've posed the question before) that animal rights IS about suffering and not death. She is a vegetarian because of health reasons (especially now that a Republican de-regulation administration is in office ) and animal suffering. She says she is against abortion, but it should be her choice, not the government's.

Then she is an idiot anyways. If she's that paranoid, she shouldn't drive anywhere either.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by skywalker


Then she is an idiot anyways. If she's that paranoid

Paranoid? Educated is the word you're looking for, I think.

[Whaleboy]

I'm pro animal rights and anti-abortion for the same principle. I consider myself a very strong liberal, and libertarian. Go figure. The key word is libertarian .

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
The key word is libertarian .

Ah yes, as in "nutcase"

[Whaleboy]

Thats the one...

[Ben Kenobi]

Christians (left or right) believe in the intrinsic worth of people? Isn't the moral worth of people conferred by God? That sounds external, not intrinsic.

That's a good question.

And yes you are right that my position is an overgeneralisation. That's what makes it fun to discuss.

Human beings have value, because they are made in the image of God. Thus, both parts are true. God confers value upon us, while at the same time, the value is intrinsic to our being.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Well, I don't know where you have been, but the slaughterhouses I have been in are not like that at all. It is in the interests of the meat producer to keep the animals from being scared (because otherwise they pump adrenalin around their bodies which makes the meat tough). Also, in the slaughterhouses I have been in, the electric shock through the brain kills the cattle instantly and painlessly (at least it appears that way). They are no more stressed than lambs are at shearing time (in fact a good deal less).

Thank you Rogan Josh. Another onewho actually witnessed things first hand rahter than relying on speculation and third hand perhaps biased sources.

The key is it is in the best interests of the factory farmers/slaughterhouses to have high yield, high quality product.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
The key is it is in the best interests of the factory farmers/slaughterhouses to have high yield, high quality product.

High volume is more important than high quality. All one has to do is look at the quality of our meat.

Anyway, I've seen film of slaughter, so while I may not have been inside one myself, I've seen it first hand.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Thank you Rogan Josh. Another onewho actually witnessed things first hand rahter than relying on speculation and third hand perhaps biased sources.

The key is it is in the best interests of the factory farmers/slaughterhouses to have high yield, high quality product.

I may be regarded as a little biased though, since my father owns one....