Gay Marriage views at Apolyton

[Spiffor]

That confirms my point about persecution. When the church is persecuted, the members adhere to their faith. When the church becomes wholly integrated into the state, people fall away when the props are kicked out. That is what we are seeing in Europe right now. The props are being kicked out, and people are falling away.

Yeah right. There were many more Christians among the population back when Christians were fed to the lions, in comparison with when Christianty was enforced.
And we all know Christianty is much more persecuted in the US than in Europe, which is the obvious reason why so many people are flocking to it

[Ned]

Spiffor, what do you think the reaction to The Passion will be in Europe where religion is largely passe?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Ned
Ben, on the issue of homosexuality being voluntary, how do you account for these "twins" studies that show up to 100% concordance between identical twins, and very little concordance between fraternal twins.

Only the first study showed 100% concordance for monozygotic twins. The other two did not. Due to the limited numbers and some other problems, I wouldnt draw too many hard conclusions from the data. All three do suggest that there is a difference in concordance between MZ and DZ twins i.e. there is a genetic component to homosexuality.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Spiffor, what do you think the reaction to The Passion will be in Europe where religion is largely passe?

No idea. Last time I heard about it, we didn't even know if the movie would ever air in France. One sure thing: we heard about it, but it certainly isn't a commotion.

[Proteus_MST]

In Germany it gets on April 8. into the Theatres.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
But the Christians, as this account confirms, Constantine says he recieved a revelation, and trusted the revelation to help him gain control of the empire. His conversion was not forced, but rather through a remarkable revelation.

Are you really that stupid!?! Where did I say Constintantine was forced? Rather I said when he seized control, HE FORCED the Roman Empire to convert, on pain of death. I was wrong about Constantine, however. It was a later emperor who forced the Roman Empire to convert or die.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Anyway, when the Romans really wanted to crush a religion, it got crushed. Where are the Druids today?

Interesting, historical accounts suggest that if Constantine had not converted and the Edict of Milan not put in place when it had, the Christians would have been exterminated within 10 years. It was that close.

But yes, it was Theodosius who wanted everyone to convert. Constantine was not going to upset the nobles.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
So not only do you refuse to respect religious people, but your bigoted against them as well?

That's actually the same thing. Bigotry implies an abense of respect. How can I possibily respect someone who believes in something so utterly foolish as a belief in something completely intangible, which they only believe in because they were convinced as to its existence by someone else.

Let me ask you this. If someone went around proclaiming they'd been visited by UFOs, would you respect them? No, because it's utterly unbelieveable. Microwaves aren't beaming into your head to control you, there is no pink unicorn behind the moon, there is no god, and this rock doesn't keep away tigers.

I am not required to respect someone just because they have a deeply held belief. If I were, I'd have to respect racists, homophobes, sexists, fascists, etc. I'd have to respect Flat Earthers, and people who believe who believe in magic, vampires, and UFOs. I don't, and I won't.

Why should I?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I'm not going to go into the Slavs, and such, I think you can see a pattern here.

Christianity spreads with missionaries, not by the sword.

I can see a pattern of you ignoring history. Missionaries convert the leaders. Leasders convert the people. Those who refuse, die. Thus did Christiainity spread.

Obviously contact took place. You can't convert to a religion you've never heard of. D'uh! So Christian missionaries spread the word. Even your own posts show that until the leader convereted, most people held to the old ways. While your sources conveniently ignore the forced converstions following the converion of the leaders, however.

As for your marriage being or not being valid. There was a time when men could do just that, grab a woman and claim her as his wife. It happens still today in some backwards parts of the world, like China (where they buy SE Asian women for wives), in rural India and Yemen, qwhere kidnapped women are forced to marry, etc. Unless you can be rescued from such a situation, your agreement is not required. You live in a society that doesn't allow such things as forced marriage and forced convertion.

As for whether or not converting at sword point makes a difference, maybe not to your beliefs. But people can be forced to believe things. Free will isn't as free as people like to think, and social pressure is very powerful in forcing people to conform.

[Elok]

I think what MrFun meant was, "not only are you rude to religious people, you won't even hear them out?"

As to why you should respect us, communism is pretty stupid in my book, but I've never tried to shoot you down with sniping sideways comments, have I? Even if you have no respect, you could at least make an initial attempt to have manners.

[Rogan Josh]

I am against gay marriage. Mainly because there is no such thing. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman, so two gay men can never be married.

Saying that is discrimination is like saying it is discrimination that two gay men can't have hetrosexual sex with each other....

Why don't you homosexual gentlemen go find your own word for your "unions" and leave ours alone.

[Whaleboy]

Elsewhere: #9 + Further Extend Rights to Polygamy

Can't see a reason why not!!! Free the love!

[Whaleboy]

I am against gay marriage. Mainly because there is no such thing. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman, so two gay men can never be married.

You are defining marriage! The best description if you want to get historical is slavery of a woman to a man. Therefore I abandon that and say that marriage is what it is to the beholders, in other words, the would-be weds. As far as the state is concerned therefore, it is nothing more than a contract, and that surely comes under freedom of association. I can find no logical barrier to gay marriage, nor would I want to.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Why don't you butt****ers go find your own word for your "unions" and leave ours alone.

Nice. Not only do we get the "You can't be in our club" argument, we get a nasty slur thrown in there as well. Is this an example of your Christian ethic?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
I am against gay marriage. Mainly because there is no such thing. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman, so two gay men can never be married.

Saying that is discrimination is like saying it is discrimination that two gay men can't have hetrosexual sex with each other....

Why don't you butt****ers go find your own word for your "unions" and leave ours alone.

Where do I even begin in refuting this type of bigoted statement?