In which all but the most conservative polypeople have a stroke...

[loinburger]

I wish to express moral outrage at corporal punishment, though I apparently don't see the need to justify my opinion in any way shape or form.

[JohnT]

I am suitably outraged at your outrage.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
No, but he did hit her recently (he's now 18). She threw him out, and now he lives at my dad's house. Since my dad is huge and strong, he's not been annoying him (bastard).

I realize I'm venturing into very sensitive territory here, but in most families, children don't physically attack their parents once they've reached a certain point of maturity, regardless of whether or not the parent is strong enough to hit back and hurt.

I'd like to reiterate that we are talking about paddling as a routine punishment performed by public schools here, not some sort of desperate-measures Scared Straight thing for kids with APD, or a private decision by parents.

Schools, like any institution, do in fact require discipline (ahem, Spiffor). But I'm inclined to believe that there's enough brute physical antagonism in our schoolyards without the teachers chiming in as a disciplinary measure.

[Fake Boris]

Elok, I agree with you. My example was quite extreme.

I tend to favor Spiffor's position: yes to corporal punishment, but not in school.

[GePap]

Well, if some here feel that corporal punishment woks, lets take it to the logical conclusion- all teachers must be allowed to, at least once a year, execute one unrully student in front of the class as an example. Imagine your teahcer took that bastard tommy and shot him down, and then had the other kids clean up the corpse? No one would EVER question teacher ever again..

Remember folks, Rule of Terror work!

[Nubclear]

I would be in support of that. Not only would the sacrafice make the students shut up, it would create some sense of order in this chaotic nation.
It would also make the students smarter

Edit: AND it would remove such a stupid, unruly student from the gene pool!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Elok
Schools, like any institution, do in fact require discipline (ahem, Spiffor).

Yup, but it is not their role to teach discipline IMHO. And enforcement of discipline at school definitely doesn't requires corporeal punishment: put the unruly kid one hour in an empty room (except for the warden), where he'll get bored like hell, have him lectured by the director, or simply give him bad marks and warn the parents for them to teach their kid accordingly.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by JohnT
*When you give your opinion, can you please say whether you're a parent? Thanks!

You're presuming the superiority of your position, based on your own personal opinion of qualification to boot.
/me slaps JohnT's egotic head around with a large trout

I wasn't a parent at any time, but was a child for a while.
Sweeping punishment doesn't cut it for me.
If a child is smart enough to understand the error in their actions, explain it to them.*
*please note that rules can be ineffective and stupid. More than once I've had a kid know what they were on about.
If a child -isn't- smart enough, out come the canes!

The next issue is Malice, but I don't exactly see how pain solves malice - in that instance I'd recomment separating the malicious from the non-malicious students (as in prision) and letting them sort each-other out, if they're smart enough to understand such a thing.
If they're malicious and stupid, shoot them and save everybody the hassle.

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
That's the point: what's so wrong with physical pain? Why must it be terribly worse than psychological torture (when you're a baby, spending a few hours in a dark closet is TERRIBLE).

Psych torture... I share the same opinion above, save exception that if a child wants to go through boot camp I'm OK with them going through boot camp!

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
You've not answered the real question. We live in a society that defines physical pain as the worse bad. Why?

Because you can see the results of physical pain but not see the results of psychological trauma (so easily), and in this society, ignorance is bliss.
Awareness of the human condition isn't so common these days :/

Young kids are unable of moral reflexion-

MOST young kids, Boris.
Some people understand stuff.
Point taken same said people can often understand stuff better than those enforcing the rules - and the fools that presume they are correct are locked in a struggle with the brains that see their error.
I'm an example.

Well, I know Kohlberg is contested, but here are the six 'stages':

/me googles for Kohlberg and reads some stuff - will reply after reading

Spiffor:
In an ideal world where parents knew what they were on about, the idea of having them teach their children would work.

Elok:
Yeah, I attacked my parents. Thought nothing of it, too. The fools deserved it.

[Dr Strangelove]

I'm not in favor of corporal punishment at school, but the idea that those kids whose parents favor it get whacked while those whose parents don't especially bothers me. It means that those kids whose parents favor spanking get treated differently than the others. Surely this must instill at least some resentment in the punished kids.

Imagine if you were the only kid in class whose parents approved of spanking, so when the whole class acted up you were the one who got whupped.

Imagine if you were the only one in class whose parents didn't allow spanking so that when the whole class acted up you were the only one who didn't get whupped.

[Enigma_Nova]

Kohlberg sure can't explain my ideology for crap, the only major difference being I support my own decisions!
Consider him contested.

[JohnT]

You're presuming the superiority of your position, based on your own personal opinion of qualification to boot.

Why, yes. Yes I am. And it is a reasonable presumption as there is nothing, nothing in life that highlights the difference between "knowledge" and "experience" than parenting. It is something that cannot be taught from a book, it is something that cannot be reasoned, it MUST be experienced, or else you truly have no clue.

[JohnT]

If a child is smart enough to understand the error in their actions, explain it to them.*

You haven't the slightest idea what a child is, or else you wouldn't make such inexperienced statements.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by JohnT
As a parent*, all I can say is:

I see nothing wrong with this. Deal with it, AZ. (and weren't you leaving, anyway? )

*When you give your opinion, can you please say whether you're a parent? Thanks!

JohnT...tell Sophie she has nothing to worry about...Knox county doesn't paddle.



I am a parent and I wish they did use corporal punishment. The system they use now includes in and out of school suspensions. The kids look at this as time off, not as punishment. My step son could care less about missing a day of school, but he definately doesn't want his ass busted. 15 minutes in the principals office to see the error of your ways or a day spent staring at a wall while doodling in your notebook? Keep my kid in class and bust his ass if he gets out of line. Schools would work so much better.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by JohnT

You're presuming the superiority of your position, based on your own personal opinion of qualification to boot.

Why, yes. Yes I am. And it is a reasonable presumption as there is nothing, nothing in life that highlights the difference between "knowledge" and "experience" than parenting. It is something that cannot be taught from a book, it is something that cannot be reasoned, it MUST be experienced, or else you truly have no clue.

Indeed this is one of the most knowledgeable and experienced posts I have ever seen on 'Poly.