"Heads will roll...just watch me"

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why? The Tories do much better, while the NDP has always been seen as the fringe, despite the media coverage.

I don't see NDP support fluctuating, compared to the Conservative party which is currently going through some big changes.

I would not call a party elected to govern Ontario and BC to be fringe. You and others who do, do so at the risk of a large comeuppance.

This could be the best chance the NDP ever had. People will look for alternatives to the Liberals after a certain point. The longer they govern, the more that will happen.

Do you think the voters of Ontario would prefer a right wing or a left wing government? I don't pretend to know who they would choose when they are good and sick of the Liberals for a spell, but I have a feeling a soft left would play better there (and East of them) than a hard right ever would.

This isn't about who we might favour, Ben. It is about trying to take other POVs into account and how to entice the gaggle that inhabits the centre. That is where elections are won and lost in Canada. In the centre.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by St Leo
What Canada needs is for the Liberals to split into two parties.

No, that's what the NDP needs.

[Ben Kenobi]

Most I know consider the NDP to be a fringe party for leftists.

Even my parents, who are more liberal than I am on social issues, would never vote for them.

They do terrible in BC, because many of the rank and file voters detest their policies, which devastated the economy of the province.

Activists, in general, would vote for them, but most people will swing between the two main parties, of either Tories or Liberals.

Do you think the voters of Ontario would prefer a right wing or a left wing government?

The NDP are not fiscally conservative. They will not attract the voters in Ontario, who we are now seeing are concerned with where their tax dollars go. These voters, who want a fiscally prudent administration do not see such prudence in the NDP.

[notyoueither]

Ontario turfed the NDP of Rae and brought in Harris and the Tories. Word is they were not happy in the long run with either.

It seems to me that Ontario is there to be taken by either Conservative or NDP, if either of them can strike the right chords.

Oh, and btw, please do not use the term 'Tory' for the new party. They haven't earned it, yet.

[FS*]

The only reason that BC is liberal is because the local NDP (last regime) were wading through scandals that were on a par with what's happening in Ottawa right now. The backlash in the last election all but eliminated the NDP in BC.

But we're still keeping pace with this round... our liberal premier- bless his pointy head- was arrested year before last in Hawai for DUI. His mug shot was on all the papers next day.

That's coastal politics for you... guaranteed entertaining, if somewhat eccentric and flaky, with a generous dollop of corruption for flavor.

[mrmitchell]

was arrested year before last in Hawai for DUI.

That's the difference between Canada and America--in America, we have oppurtunity. Why if a pointy-headed American recieved a DUI he'd be well on his way to the Presidency.

[Ben Kenobi]

They haven't earned it, yet.

Why not?

They have earned the term. They had the support of over 90% of the Tory party delegates, and around 94% of the Alliance.

If that is not a mandate, than I don't know what would count.

our liberal premier- bless his pointy head- was arrested year before last in Hawai for DUI. His mug shot was on all the papers next day.

His poll numbers bounced up after that... It made him look more human, rather than staid. He will live or die, on whether or not his budget gets balanced.

[FS*]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Why if a pointy-headed American recieved a DUI he'd be well on his way to the Presidency.

Uhm... that would be Ralph Klein, over in Alberta.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why not?

They have earned the term. They had the support of over 90% of the Tory party delegates, and around 94% of the Alliance.

If that is not a mandate, than I don't know what would count.

They haven't proved they are real Tories yet.

Tory can be a pejorative term used by opponents to describe reactionary conservatives, or it can be one who follows a tradition of nation building and responsible government with a clear idea of a social contract.

It is not the Tory party influence in the new Conservatives that is the issue, it is the influence of the anti-Quebec, anti-Maritimes, regional snit-fitters that is the issue. The Harper that I have heard of is no Tory.

[FS*]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
His poll numbers bounced up after that... It made him look more human, rather than staid. He will live or die, on whether or not his budget gets balanced.

True enough. But there's no fear of him being the one... BC's had every variety of savant, and every last one of them has had a plan for balancing the budget.

It's just a shame that disappearing millions doesn't count as being 'balanced'. The latest sum is about, oh, 2.3 million dollars in 'forgiven' debts owed by several fish farm operations...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by FS*


Uhm... that would be Ralph Klein, over in Alberta.

You're right, except it was an argument with someone while he was drunk. Of course, we allow for the fact that pols might be human. We are not hypocrites who drink and then decry the man for enjoying the barley himself.

[Ben Kenobi]

or it can be one who follows a tradition of nation building and responsible government with a clear idea of a social contract.

Well, by this definition, the Liberals are the New Tories. Heck, even the NDP could be considered the New Tories.

I think you need some kind of historical connection between the Progressive Conservative party in order to be considered a Tory.

It is not the Tory party influence in the new Conservatives that is the issue, it is the influence of the anti-Quebec, anti-Maritimes, regional snit-fitters that is the issue.

Look at all the Tory governments in the past. This type of coalition has traditionally produced their nation building governments.

The Harper that I have heard of is no Tory.

I would beg to differ. He's more of a Tory than Joe Who.

[Ben Kenobi]

had every variety of savant, and every last one of them has had a plan for balancing the budget.

Even Duff Patullo?

The latest sum is about, oh, 2.3 million dollars in 'forgiven' debts owed by several fish farm operations...

Never heard of it.

[FS*]

It's not the barley that grates. It's the circumstances.

But Klein's a smart cookie. Campbell wants to be just like him when he grows up.

[notyoueither]

Well, Ben, if you think that anti-Quebec makes a Tory, that shows about what you know of the subject.

You can beg to differ all you want, but being a Tory means more than wanting lower taxes, fewer social programs, and saying screw you to people from other regions of the country.