Oerdin's Iraq thread.

[Barinthus]

Can't the military just blow those bunkers up instead of just securing those?

And I'm curious - what's your opinion regarding National Guardsmen? I do have enormous respect for them regarding their commitment despite many negative aspects of being a Guardsman. However I can't help but to wonder are they as effective as full-time professional Army? From what I understand, they only meet and train over weekends hence their informal title 'weekend warriors.'

[Auntie H]

That was very scary, can't you stay off the streets???
Leran the joys of a desk job.

[Dinner]

Data: Normally they do blow them up but the British & Americans only have so many trained Unexploded Ordinance (UXO) personnel and the other Coalition Members have virtually no one who knows what they're doing. UXO teams are slowly working their way through the stock piles but it will be a [b]LOOOOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGGGG[/q] time before they get done. Until then the weapons are free for the taking.

Auntie: Getting out is the best part abet the most dangerous as well.

[Dinner]

Inshallah

I have long been looking for a word which describes the cultural differences between the western and Arab mind sets; now after two months of observation I believe I have found it. The word is Inshallah.

Inshallah literally means "God willing", which seems innocent enough at first, but, I have come to believe that fewer words in this world can be more infuriating. Ask an Arab to do any simple thing and his reply is "inshallah". Can I get a copy of the report we've paid you for? Maybe in a week or so, inshallah. Ask for a list of police officer's names along with their photographs so you can get IDs made and the chief will say he might be able to get them in a three or four weeks, inshallah. Inshallah. Always inshallah

I often hear people complain about numerous things here in Iraq. They are unemployed, their housing isn't up to standards, the (free) electricity isn't plentiful enough, etc... Yet none of them do a thing to help themselves. They don't form community organizations to improve their neighborhoods, they don't come together to found co-ops, and it is a rare rare bird who ever tries to start his own business. They all just sit waiting for the government or god to solve their problems. Maybe it's the lifetime complete socialism which has made them so docile and unwilling to help themselves but I suspect it is really the Inshallah mind set.

You see if a westerner wants to buy house or start a business then he will sit down and make a budget. He will carefully watch his expenditures and he will invest his savings so that they grow as quickly as possible. This is so he can achieve his goals. To an Arab though such calculations show a distrubing lack of faith in god. If god wanted you to have a house then he'd give one to you and if god wanted you to be wealth, why, then money would fall from the sky. God wills all things and to plot your own future means to work against god's will.

To most sane westerns (and I suspect most Asians as well) this is almost child like in its simplicity but I a sure you I have repeatedly observed such thinking on numerous occations. Much of the present stagnation in Arab countries becomes understandable once you comprend the true cultural place Arabs have given Inshallah.

[Theben]

Inshallah sounds a lot like '[ethnic/racial group] time'.

[Spiffor]

This is actually quite a valid argument. I way prefer the "Insh'government" instead of Inshallah, but this is most probably one of the most important differences between western (and more specifically American) work ethics and Arabic work ethics.

[pchang]

I came to the same realization in 1998 while I was trying to do business in Egypt.

"Business" was actually laundering US foreign aid money so we didn't really have to accomplish anything other than collect money and pay out for "consultants".

[East Street Trader]

Don't rush to judgment, Oerdin. I have no doubt at all that you are right to identify a radically different mindset. The conclusion to reach, though, is that this means it will take a long time before you can hope to understand.

Civilization started in that part of the world. So fatalism does not wholly paralize there.

Glad to learn that you are not totally isolated from local people in that compound.

[Barinthus]

I got that inshallah bit from Peace Corps guidebook . Makes sense too.

When I was in Kenya, people sometimes say hahuna matata which basically means 'No worries/problems.'

However after being in Africa long enough, I realize that there's much more to hahuna matata than just 'No worries.' In a sense it means 'Why worry? What's the point? Life is miserable, there's nothing we can do about it, it's beyond our control. We as well just sit back and watch everything go to garbage around us, there's no point in trying to improve our lives. No point in stressing ourselves out. Here's some miraa and enjoy.'

It really explain a lot about the Kenyan mindset (African for that matter too).

[pchang]

fatalism

is the result of feeling powerless. generations of disenfranchisement will tend to do that to a culture.

That's why rpublic and democracy get those extra trade arrows and food production bonuses.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by East Street Trader
Civilization started in that part of the world. So fatalism does not wholly paralize there.

A lot can and has changed over last 5,000 years.

And, Oerdin, I'm not sure if you saw my question about National Guardsmen. I know that your environment in which you use the Internet is probably not exactly optimal. I'm really curious to hear a professional soldier's view regarding our 'weekend warriors' although.

[East Street Trader]

"Manyana" is used in a similar way.

I think you'll find use of an expression like this is characteristic of hot countries.

It occurs to me to wonder, Oerdin, whether your unit might not be able to make use of the "Inshallah" mindset in the sub text of some of your leaflets. Of course you would not use the expression. But maybe you can draw on the idea a bit in the background to what you say to suggest that going with the flow of current events and seeing where Allah is taking things is the approach folk should be adopting.

[Barinthus]

Yeah, the Occupation is in the place for a reason, inshallah. Work with the CPA to build a better society which Iraqis deserve, inshallah.

Would they be upset if 'infidels' were to use that expression although?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DataAeolus
And, Oerdin, I'm not sure if you saw my question about National Guardsmen. I know that your environment in which you use the Internet is probably not exactly optimal. I'm really curious to hear a professional soldier's view regarding our 'weekend warriors' although.

Sorry, I did miss that one. I myself am a reservist who's been activated for one year to assist in the reconstruction effort here in Iraq so I might not be the most unbiased person to ask about "weekend warriors" but I'll give it a shot. Yes, some active duty personnel do look down their noses at reservists and national guards men but most do not. Most of the "part-timers" are better educated, have just as much military training as the full timers, and they have a more fully rounded background from their civilian jobs so often times they are better at relating with no military personal and/or thinking outside of the box.

Sadly, the military is often about routines and it becomes difficult for someone stuck in the routine to remember what it is like on the outside world. In peace keeping missions, and Iraq is fast becomeing one, this fresh perspective and ability to relate to civilians often comes in very handy. Add in the fact that the military can't funtion on long deployments without half of the men being drawn from the reserves/guard and you see why the active duty just can't get along without them.

[Cruddy]

Re: Inshallah

Originally posted by Oerdin
I have long been looking for a word which describes the cultural differences between the western and Arab mind sets; now after two months of observation I believe I have found it. The word is Inshallah.

Inshallah literally means "God willing", which seems innocent enough at first, but, I have come to believe that fewer words in this world can be more infuriating. Ask an Arab to do any simple thing and his reply is "inshallah". Can I get a copy of the report we've paid you for? Maybe in a week or so, inshallah. Ask for a list of police officer's names along with their photographs so you can get IDs made and the chief will say he might be able to get them in a three or four weeks, inshallah. Inshallah. Always inshallah

I use this word to describe situations over which I have absolutely no control or input. Things like getting run over on a pedestrian crossing, the mail being late, etc.

I guess for some Muslim's it's an excuse, but for many the real issue is perception; if you've been living under a complete dictatorship all your life, and your parents before you, then it's very hard to change this sort of mind set.

Can't recall Turks using the words much... but for serious stuff like fatal accidents or illnesses, it still has some value.

Must drive you up the wall when it's used improperly though, that is when people DO have some input or control. A good retort might be "God helps those who helps themselves".

Try it on a moderate first though, cause a fundy might be highly offended by it.