City of San Francisco issuing marriage licenses to gays, weds 1 couple so far...

[Lawrence of Arabia]

these anti gay marriage people are like the pro segragationists of the 50s and 60s. i hope you guys enjoy that company.

[JohnT]

My thoughts exactly, LoA.

[chequita guevara]

I wonder if we could start getting segregationist rider amendments on these antigay laws. I wonder if anyone would see the irony or would just think we were bigots?

[Ben Kenobi]

1. The inability to have your partner on your health insurance @ family rates.
2. The inability to pass your estate tax-free to your partner upon your death.
3. The inability to garner a few income tax advantages that some states offer marrieds.

And how is any individual denied the access to these privileges? Everyone has the same access to these privileges through marriage with someone of the opposite sex. If someone chooses not to make that decision, then why should they recieve the benefits?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

because marriage with someone of the opposite sex from the point of view of a gay person is an infringement of their rights.

[JohnT]

Why does the decision to marry have to be limited by the clause "... of the opposite sex"?

[ixnay]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


And how is any individual denied the access to these privileges? Everyone has the same access to these privileges through marriage with someone of the opposite sex. If someone chooses not to make that decision, then why should they recieve the benefits?

Jesus christ, every time you spout off that "HURR GAYS CAN MARRY PEOPLE THEY JUST HAVE TO MARRY THE OTHER SEX" line it gets more and more annoying.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

because this guy in that book which is full of sinners who hasnt appeared in the last 2000 years said so.

[chequita guevara]

Off with his NUTS!

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


And how is any individual denied the access to these privileges? Everyone has the same access to these privileges through marriage with someone of the opposite sex. If someone chooses not to make that decision, then why should they recieve the benefits?

Why don't more people choose to live with widow's benefits? They wouldn't have to put up with some louse hogging up half the bed, then.

[Giancarlo]

Thank you ming. Now I can debate.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So if a group of people rebel against the state, the state should roll over and permit them?

Yes.

This is a direct challenge to his authority, and he needs to make a decision, on how he will respond to this challenge. He has a responsibility not just to the people of San Francisco, but to all Californians.

He has the responsibility of respecting the constitutional rights of us all and by prohibiting gay marriage, it is barring many Americans from seeking equal rights. These Americans pay taxes to the state. Should they be discriminated against? That is just not fair and that is not democracy. I believe Arnold will allow gay marriage and in fact pass a law permitting it.

A step. A list please, of how the homosexual people are treated as second-class citizens in the US of A.

How about the harassment? Ever been in my shoes? The homophobic nature of the military and how gay people are treated. I can't hold my boyfriend's hand without the fear of getting beaten to a pulp.

And thank you ming for the rest of the list.

Ben it isn't your right to say who deserves constitutional rights and who does not on the basis of their sexual orientation. You may not like gay people but that does not give you the right to infringe on their rights.

[Ben Kenobi]

They get dragged behind the back of pick up trucks...

And are the people responsible punished?

Aren't allowed to marry their partners...

So. Neither can I, unless I have their permission, and the state chooses to recognise the marriage.

Many religions consider them sinners and don't welcome them in their churches...

One. If religions did not admit sinners into their churches, they would be empty.

Two. I thought you defend freedom of association.

They get beat up regularly at schools...

Will gay marriage solve this problem, or should we enforce restrictions on bullying? THe latter would be far more effective.

They get fired from jobs just because of their sexual orientation...

And they can sue and receive legal recourse for doing so.

Get thrown out of the military if people find out they are gay...

But they are not required to disclose their preferences in order to join. Their preferences will not become an issue, unless they make it an issue.

and have to put up with people blaming them for problems in straight marriages

Divorce has been a problem for a long time, irrespective of homosexuality.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

and think about this, the book of sinners also promotes incest since after the flood, noah and his relatives must have been procreating with each other in order to spread the seed of humanity.

'Excuse me, little sister'
'Dont call me your sister. I am also your mother'

[Ben Kenobi]

I am late. I have to go.

Ixy, then refute the line.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
There is no right to be married, beyond that which the state chooses to grant.

Yes, but when you're granting it, you're doing so for ANYONE. That's the right for equality.